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Identifying your prospects and customers [PODCAST]


PreneurCast is a marketing podcast. Each week, author and marketer Pete Williams and digital media producer Dom Goucher discuss entrepreneurship, business, internet marketing and productivity.

Pete talks to Dom about Marketing Nouns vs. Marketing Verbs – two ways to identify prospects and customers and to focus your marketing. By thinking about verbs (actions and states of being) as well as nouns (names), you can target your marketing even more.

Pete talks to Dom about ways to identify your customers and how you can target your marketing more

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Episode 048:
Marketing Nouns and Marketing Verbs

Dom Goucher: Welcome everybody to this week’s PreneurCast with me, Dom Goucher, and my co-host Pete Williams. Hey, Pete.

Pete Williams: Hey, how’s things?

Dom: Great, mate. Great. Good to have you back again.

Pete: Fantastic.

Dom: I’m still just getting used to you being here. Still reliably week after week. I missed you, buddy.

Pete: You handled the show quite well by yourself, mate. You were all under control.

Dom: Very kind of you to say so, sir. Just controlled panic in the background.

Pete: It’s duck under water; the little legs paddling furiously under water.

Dom: That’s the one, mate. That’s the one. We looked graceful on the surface; but underneath, it’s going like crazy.

Pete: Big week?

Dom: You know what, it’s a bit normal to be a big week around here. Yeah, we should each other. It’s been a quiet week recently.

Pete: We should.

Dom: How’s the normality of being married sinking in?

Pete: So far so good. Nothing too different, really. It’s all pretty much the same. Nothing has really changed. So, it’s a good thing.

Dom: I want you to know I’m going to edit that out and I will not let your good lady wife hear that little normality comment. OK, let’s crack on with this week’s show. Before we do, as always, we just like to thank our sponsors. The first sponsor for this week is again, Audible books. I wouldn’t be at all surprise, Pete, if you listened to a few audiobooks while you’re away on your honeymoon.

Audible is our supplier of choice for audiobooks. Great service. They’ve got over 100,000. I’m going to have to increase that number, I’m sure, soon. But they’ve got over 100,000 books and titles of all variety. It’s not just business and personal development, but fiction as well. Excellent quality audio. Read very often by the author. Usually always read very well by somebody interesting.

And if you head on over to AudibleTrial.com/PreneurCast, you can get a free trial and a coupon to download a free audiobook. So, pop over and give that a try. It’s a great way to consume books and just keep up-to-date while you’re doing other things. As I’ve mentioned before, when I’m doing the dishes, it’s one of those times that I tend to catch up on my audiobooks.

Pete: I was talking to a friend of mine this week who just started running. She was talking about listening to music and stuff while she runs and finds that a bit boring. So, I suggested that she do some audiobooks. She loved the idea. The feedback so far has been that it’s been very engaging for her to get lost in the story or an autobiography while she’s been running. It takes her mind off the actual task of running. She gets lost in the book which makes the time pass a lot quicker, which is fantastic.

Dom: That’s a great tip. If I’m not listening to an audiobook, I’d catch up on my podcast listening while I’m cycling to the office in the morning. It’s a good 15, 20-minute ride. But it’s the same ride every day, and so it can get a bit monotonous and there’s a few hills that I’m not keen on. I find that having something to listen to just help me keep going. Good tip.

Pete: Very nice.

Dom: Now, last week, you mentioned the mysterious marketing verbs and marketing nouns. It brought back high-school English and cold sweat. I’m hoping you’re going to make this one a little bit more a grown-up conversation. Where did this whole idea come from? I love not only your ideas and your perspective on things, but I also like to know where you get these ideas from. I find it’s usually quite an interesting story.

Pete: In terms of this, I don’t really know the story yet where it came from. It’s just an idea that’s been bubbling away for quite a while. It’s a good way to look at your marketing. If you break down, to start with, nouns versus verbs; when it comes to nouns, they’re names of a person, a place, an animal or a thing.

Whereas, if you break up and look at verbs, verbs are the actions, events or states of being. That’s difference from a dictionary perspective. If you look at marketing nouns, then what we’re talking about is marketing to people, animals, places and things. Fundamentally, let’s think of marketing nouns as marketing to a target audience.

In the context of a real estate agent, you’re basically marketing to homeowners in Pennsylvania, United States who need roof tiling (if you’re actually a roof tiler). You can get that demographic. That’s basically marketing around nouns. The sentence I wrote down was a way to think about this: “I market to [noun] in [noun] who need [nouns].”

So, “I market to homeowners in Alberta, Canada who need roof tiling.” Those things are all nouns: homeowners; Alberta, Canada (it’s a place); roof tiling (it’s kind of like a thing or an abstract idea). That’s how most people generally look at their marketing. They think of it from a noun perspective in terms of a target audience. Does that make sense?

Dom: Absolutely. That’s exactly what people do.

Pete: Yeah. That’s my definition of marketing nouns. Now, something that a lot of people don’t think about is looking at marketing from a verb aspect or marketing verbs. If you look at the definition of a verb, as I’ve said before, a verb asserts something about a subject of a sentence expressed in actions or events or states of being.

If you look at this again, think about the actions or states of being that your prospects would go through to get to a solution that you sell (because that’s what we all do; we just sell solutions or solve problems by solutions), and you market to these verbs, your market to the actions they’re going through.

Real estate agents, the analogy I touched on before, let’s think about what are the actions people go through when they’re buying a house or think of upgrading the house. The actions might be: finding out how much the houses in a particular area are worth; finding out how much their own house is worth to see if they can afford the difference to roll up to a new house and things like that; and then finding an agent to deal with.

That’s the mental process, mental actions or the mental nouns that someone goes through in the house-buying process. They are taking different actions all the way through. If you can market your business and your services differently to the way these people are doing the actions through the process, it’s another way of thinking about how you can reach that target market – by delving deeper into the actual verbs they are doing. Does that make any sense at all?

Dom: Yeah, I like that. It’s quite an interesting perspective on it – as it usually is when you come up with one of your ideas. I don’t know that there’s a good and a bad in this; but it’s definitely different perspective. Nouns is one of those things. “I market to parents,” “I market to homeowners.” As you say, all these nouns. “My solution is for X, Y, Z.” It’s a standard way to describe what you do.

Your little elevator pitches, it was. But the verbs gives you another way to look at it. So when you’re looking for people with your solution, people who your solution might help instead of ‘looking for homeowners, parents, et cetera,’ you’re actually looking for people maybe potentially in a particular phase of a process. As you say, they might be looking at market prices.

They might be searching for a real estate agent to list their property. They might be evaluating a list of agents to list their property. Or, even on the higher-level issues, they may be renovating their home and that has a series of steps that they go through as well. In a way, it’s almost a way of identifying potential people to market to as well as imagining or picturing them in your mind to see how you can address them.

Pete: Yeah, exactly right. Normally, when you talk about demographics and working out who your target market is, it’s very much based around nouns. You break your target market and your audience into nouns: homeowners in Alberta, Canada, who want roof tiling – which is fine. But if you break that subset down, there’s going to be people going through different actions of that buying cycle, which is the verb component.

So then, what you want to try and do is in your marketing, when people are doing this part, this action in the buying process, ask, “How am I getting in front of them? How am I reaching them? What message am I putting together to reach them?” It’s a different type of a message and potentially a different path to market than it would be if there were five steps down the action process down that buying cycle.

It’s a different type of communication, a different type of medium. For example, in one area, you might be looking at doing banner ads or you might be doing pay-per-click advertising. But once they’re into a different part of the buying cycle, it’s all about the proposal and the presentation, or it might be about some direct-response scenarios.

Hypothetically, if you’re a real estate agent (if we try and roll this analogy out a little bit), you can put together some free reports around the value of houses in a particular area that you service and give them away for free. So, when people are in that initial action verb, “Roughly, I’m thinking of moving down to a coastal town. What are the house prices like down there?”

Maybe you can do free reports that help people get educated when they’re doing that part of the buying cycle and you get them to opt in and give their name and email address. Then the next step is to consider listing their current house on the market to be able to afford to go down to the coast. Could you offer some follow-up marketing piece that hits that next verb, that next action they’re taking, which is, “What is my house worth?”

Once you got them into your funnel with the first step which is, “What the house values in this area worth,” then follow up in some sort of upsell sequence or back-end marketing sequence, the next verb, which is, “Let me come and value your home for you.” Then try and work out in the next step of that sequence how you can get them to list with you. It’s about hitting those different verbs all the way through.

Dom: That example has really helped me solidify something that was rattling around in the back of my brain. Traditional marketing is about nouns including targeting. It’s a lot easier to target people with a nail. You need to think a little bit more if you’re trying to, say, reach an open audience – an audience that you don’t currently have, through the verbs.

The verbs are, though, more targeted. They’re people in a stage of a process; as you say, a state of being. So, in a way, I was about to say ‘better,’ but it definitely can be a more targeted way. You potentially could get more response from that. But in your example as you say, if they’re in your funnel or you can identify the funnel or process that they’re going through, you can identify those stages – those verbs, and you can address them.

It’s a great way of planning and producing some very targeted marketing materials or doing some marketing actions, making some contact or whatever, to get a better response. But the easy way to do it, from your example, is if they are in a funnel that you know about (whether it’s your funnel or they’re in a process that you know about). If they’re out there in the world, it gets a little trickier and you definitely have to be a bit more creative about your marketing.

Pete: You can almost look at it in the terms of that the verbs are a subset of the nouns.

Dom: Yeah.

Pete: The first thing you have to do in business is work out what your target market is. That’s a noun statement: “I market to [nouns] in [noun] who need [noun].” “I market to homeowners in Alberta, Canada who need roof tiling. That’s your target market. But then, once you’re trying to market to that target, that’s where the nouns come in.

Dom: Verbs, dude. Verbs.

Pete: I’m going to lose this. I’m going to completely confuse people, I know.

Dom: It’s fine. I’ll keep you on track. Carry on because it’s a great example.

Pete: I clearly failed in English in high school. It’s the verbs that you need to consider as the different marketing messages that you need to target to that target market.

Dom: Yeah. That is it. In a nutshell, that’s kind of my rather rambling comment; it was going in that direction. But you really have got it down very well. As you say, the nouns as a start point, the generalization, and the verbs become the specifics. It’s a good way; that’s a good way to say it. I think it’s a good way to plan things out.

Pete: That’s the lesson. Hopefully, everyone has a clear identity of their target market. A lot of them talk about doing the avatar. A lot of people talk about creating your avatar. “My target market is a 35-year-old male with one kid, is a tradesman who went to trade school 15 years ago, has learned to trade, is great on the tools, now has started his own company, knows really well the technical aspects of his job but has no idea how to market it.”

That might be your avatar. His name is Greg. He’s got a wife. He likes to play footy on the weekend. People talk about being very clear about your avatar, and I think that’s really important. But all you’re doing there is noun-ing your target market or your avatar. That’s great; it’s the first step. But then you want to go and start verb-ing it up.

What I mean by that is, as I’ve said, now you know this avatar, put yourself in their shoes and what processes do they go through. What frustrations are they having? What actions, events or even emotional states of being are they going through in their life? Try and isolate as many as you can because they’re the separate verbs they’re experiencing.

And then you can market to each of those verbs in a number of different ways. Whether it be part of your marketing funnel where they sign up for something and get a free report or an opt-in for a quote, and then you have the process mapped-out.

As you get that initial touch or interaction with that prospect, work out what action they’re currently going through. That way, you can work out what action you’re going to do next. Once you understand that, that’s where your marketing is really powerful to market through those states of being, those events or actions that they’re going to go through.

Dom: This really does speak to the better marketing and targeting advice. If you get into this, the first thing you need to do (any business marketing, any business to any client base), is to clearly and fully understand your audience. I think this noun and verb model is great for that. As you say, a lot of people, they build these avatars.

But if you analyze your avatar, however much detail you think you’ve gone through: how many children they have, if they’re married, or what their education was, they’re nouns. What will help you connect with these people, in the main, will be the verbs. Once you have an understanding those nouns about that person, the verbs will add the detail.

They’ll add almost the empathy for the person going through that process, the steps or the states of whatever it might be whether it’s buying or selling a house, buying or selling a car, using a particular piece of software on the computer, or trying to achieve a result in their business. They all go through states. They all go through verbs because they’re doing things. It’s a great way to drill down into that.

Pete: Let’s talk about some examples on top of our heads. I recently went on a honeymoon. Let’s talk about that. The noun component of that is, if you’re a travel agent: “I market to people in Melbourne who need a holiday.” That’s generally, to a high-level aspect, what people will consider their target market as a travel agent because it’s just a holiday.

That’s fine. That’s the noun element. Let’s talk about the verbs and what process someone goes through when they’re organizing a holiday. First thing is they need to work out what sort of even the holiday is for, which is the verb side of things. In our instance, it was a honeymoon. The first action we take is where can you possibly go on your honeymoon?

Obviously, you can go around the world. But there are certain places, like for us being in Australia, we wouldn’t have gone to Sydney for our honeymoon because we go there all the time. Have some marketing material have out there to help people make that first decision of, “Where should we go?” Maybe have a website. HoneymoonIdeas.com.au, for example, could be a Web site you create to target people in that action.

Maybe you have a brochure that when they come in to your travel agent, you hand them a simple guide to help them understand all the possible places around the world they could go on a honeymoon, the pros and cons on each of the ones. You talk about Fiji, or the Maldives, or Europe, or United States, or Canada, or whatever it might be, as different honeymoon destination and the pros and cons of them.

Then the next step once the person has figured out where they want to go, is choosing the hotels and activities they should do while there. That’s the next verb you go through in the process. You go, “Where are you going to go to the Maldives for your honeymoon?” Now the next step is to work out what hotel do we stay at. You have the Maldives specific marketing material, brochures, guides, websites, reviews, articles.

They’re the actions that you go through and they’re the things you need to target. The communication that you have to someone who’s planning a honeymoon and has no idea where they’re going to go is a completely conversation, a completely marketing material you need for someone who has already identified a country they’re going to. That’s what you need to think about in your marketing when you are a travel agent targeting that sort of thing.

Dom: Good point. A good example. Obviously, a well-researched example by you.

Pete: A good thing is I can spitball that because I just went through that. I just went through those verbs. I experienced those actions.

Dom: All this is still back to targeting. It’s still back to message to market-match, right?

Pete: Absolutely. It’s all ‘strategery,’ and that is a word. I guarantee you.

Dom: Oh, dear. You and your magic words. But it is. It’s message to market-match. It’s another way to help you understand your market, understand what they’re going through and match your solution to their situation or to create information. In the case of your travel agent there, it’s a case of being the person with the better service.

Pete: Yeah, absolutely.

Dom: If you go to a travel agent, you walk in and you say, “Hey, we’re going on a honeymoon,” they kind of wave at you and show you a huge pile or a wall of brochures with every resort in every different part of the world, and leave you to it. That’s not great service and he shouldn’t really expect to get a sale out of that unless you’re desperate.

Whereas, somebody that asks you a few questions, finds out your state; as you say, you might not have said, “We’re going on a honeymoon.” So, they find that out. They position you in that state. They find out where you are in the process. And then have materials or they have at least got information they can provide you that’s relevant to the state you’re in.

If you haven’t got a clue where to go, in contrariwise even, as you say, that’s a great place to start. Because otherwise, you end up looking at 20 brochures, each with five or 10 whole-day resorts from everywhere around the world. You’ll sit there for hours on end not being able to focus on it, not being able to take all the data.

Pete: Absolutely. The way I would describe what you just said there is it’s about matching your communication to the state of being of your target market at that stage because people go through different states. A lot of people talk about it as customer service. But to me, customer service is what happens after they’ve actually signed the dotted line.

Everything until they’ve signed the dotted line and given it to you is not customer service; it’s marketing and sales. I think that’s potentially a whole other episode. Customer service is what happens after they’ve given you the dollar. You’re serving your customer. They’re not a customer until they paid money with you; they’re just a prospect.

Dom: Good point.

Pete: It’s all about marketing at that stage. It’s about targeting your communication, your sales material and your marketing to not only help guide people and walk them through that process once they’ve hit your funnel, but also to consider that some people might come into your funnel half-way through the process. So, what you have already to target them, communicate with them, and make a connection with them.

If we go to that real estate example, some people might have already realized that they want to pack up their bags and move from England to Spain. That’s fine. So when they come to you in England to sell their property, you don’t need to actually have any marketing material for them to help them work out what real estate is worth in Spain because it’s completely irrelevant to you.

But you have to have some marketing material to communicate to that person who’s already at Stage 2. They’ve already gone through some of those actions. How can you put them in a funnel that is separate to other funnels that are specific people who have come into your world based on the starting point of, “What is my house worth?”

Dom: You know the biggest example of that is something that we talk about quite regularly. But the biggest example of that is one that you’ve already mentioned now, which is the differentiation between a prospect and customer. Because the way that you communicate with a prospect and the way that you communicate with a customer is different.

Pete: Absolutely. And I would say that’s a different noun – a name of a person, place, thing or abstract idea. You could argue, well, not even argue; I think it’s really out for debate that a customer is a different noun. They’re not taking a different action; that’s just them. But once they’re a customer, they might be going through different actions which are different verbs. But the category of them is that it’s a different noun. So, it’s a completely bucket altogether.

Dom: Yeah, it is. But it also, as you say, brings up different verbs as well because they’ll be going through different states.

Pete: Exactly right.

Dom: They’ll go through some similar states as your prospects will, because they’ll want another X, Y or Z. But they’ll also go through different states. So, you’re kind of starting at a different funnel, maybe.

Pete: That’s exactly what you should be doing if you’re really focusing on your marketing. Every business is going to have most likely multiple nouns. If you’re looking at telco space: we’ve got phone system buyers, we’ve got our service people who need service work on their phone system who might not have bought the system from us in the first place. They’re two completely different nouns in our business, and the process they go through is a completely different set of verbs.

Dom: This is kind of the action point in this: to look at your business and look, first of all, for the nouns. If you haven’t done this, if you don’t have the nouns that describe the people that are your prospects, if you don’t have an idea who these people really are; then the first thing you should do is look for that. Look for the ways to describe the people. Your example, Pete, is great. What is it?

Pete: I market to [noun] in [noun] who need [noun].

Dom: I market to [noun] in [noun] who need [noun].

Pete: I market to owners in Alberta, Canada who need roof tiling.

Dom: Your telco business has probably got the same thing.

Pete: Absolutely.

Dom: You market to business owners in Australia…

Pete: …who need phone system to support. We market to businesses in the Eastern seaboard of Australia who need a brand new phone system. We’ve got heaps of those little nouns.

Dom: I market to information marketers all around the world who need digital media. There you go. It’s a relatively easy thing to do. I’m really warming to this even though I was scared of it because it was just an English lesson when I was thinking about it. But once you’ve got those nouns, it’s drilling down. It’s coming up with the verbs, the states of those people are in. For example, your telco business; you say these different people.

I have different people. I have people who come to me who don’t know anything about video production for the Web. They really don’t have any idea. They know they need it, they it’s a powerful medium; but they don’t actually know what it takes to do it. So, I have to be prepared in my marketing and sales activities to educate that customer. And by the way, educating your customer is a great way to build trust and authority with them.

If you’ve got someone out there who just has a Web site that says, “Click my PayPal button and pay me some money, I’ll make you a video,” that’s going to get you a certain kind of client. If you’re willing to actually educate your clients, it’s a way to build trust and rapport with that client. But I also have people like you; your first job to me was for me to take something that you’d already recorded yourself, you’d already partially edited.

You just wanted me to finish it off. That’s the other end of the spectrum. I’d class you more as an expert user who I can have a high-level conversation with about the technical topics. We can talk quite intelligently about your requirements and come up with a very precise spec. You didn’t at that time expect me to bring too much of my expertise to the table in terms of planning and all that.

Pete: Yeah, no strategery needed.

Dom: No strategery needed. As it turned out, we developed a relationship and now I’m heavily involved in strategery for you. But a lot of my other clients who come to me, they’re looking for that strategery up front. They’re looking for somebody to help them go from nothing to a complete solution. And so, while there’s a noun involved with that, there’s a lot of verbs that are extra for those clients.

Pete: Yeah, exactly right. And this is the thing; if we try and tie this back to the 7 Levers, (and it’s definitely worth doing putting some context) the underlying flow or foundation of the show is that this applies to your traffic-generation lever. When you’re going out there trying to grab more traffic, you try and target that traffic based on the verbs that your identified nouns are doing.

When we’re talking about another lever, which is upsells and cross-sells, what can you be doing? In that buying cycle, when someone has physically then gone through the first couple of levers and are in that stage of making a transaction, what can you do in that moment to upsell? It’s a different type of verb, a different action that person is going through.

The, “Would you like fries with that?” is a great question to ask when people are already salivating at the McDonald’s register, thinking about the hamburger they’re about to get handed to that they can eat. There’s more chance of them buying the extra chips right there and then in that moment because they’re taking a different action. What is the actual state of being that they’re in right now?

Dom: Absolutely. Verbs and context go hand in hand. That idea of being in a state is a context. As you say, “Do you want fries with that?” is incredibly relevant if you stood at a counter in McDonald’s. If you stood in a sporting goods store, it’s not quite so relevant. I know it’s a bit of a silly example, but it clarifies that these people are more in a frame of mind to do something when they’re in a certain state.

I think this applies in a lot of the stages in the 7 Levers. The traffic-generation, as you say, I talked at the beginning about this being a great way to focus your targeting. If you’re doing something like pay-per-click advertising, understanding the state that somebody might be in and who you want to market to can target the keywords that you choose and target your adverts to those people, to generate more targeted traffic.

Traffic that is in a particular state of mind looking for a particular solution is going to improve your opt-ins. Once they’re opted in if they were well-targeted traffic and your message is good and your message to market-match which you’ve developed through knowing the verb and the state, that’s going to help your conversion. So, those first three levers, this is vital stuff.

And then, as you say, selling more items in a transaction, if they’re in a state; if they are at the checkout or in the market for a particular kind of item, then that’s the time that you can suggest complementary items. So, this is incredibly relevant to a lot of our 7 Levers.

Pete: Absolutely. The action point for this week is for people to take this concept and just think about it. Think about breaking down the actions that your prospects go through to get the solution to the problem that you help solve. Then work out and make sure that you’re marketing specifically, uniquely and concisely to each one of these verbs you’ve just identified.

Hopefully, you’ve already started thinking about the nouns that you target, things that Dom spoke about before. Now, think about the actions that these people take throughout that buying process, throughout the discovery process of the solution that you sell. Different people discover your solution in different ways and go about trying to find that solution in different ways.

Make sure you are targeting each of those different types of actions, events that they go through, or states of being they’re in. That will really help enhance the conversion rate of that communication and marketing you’re already doing in your business.

Dom: Just one little thing I want to say about that; I talked about the example of targeting your pay-per-click advertising in my little piece. But this is also about the other example that I gave where it’s about how you communicate to these people if they come to you.

If you’re a bricks-and-mortar business or you’re somebody who communicates with clients that make inquiries; if you’re ready for people that are in these different states; if you have the communication piece example of the holiday company where you’ve got materials that help people at those different stages of the process, it’s going to improve every aspect of your business.

Pete: Absolutely.

Dom: That’s fantastic, mate. I am now no longer afraid of verbs and nouns, which for a man of my age is something quite significant. I just want to thank our second sponsor (just a quick slot in here), Read It For Me, the book review service. Still continue to be amazed by the stuff that these guys turn out. They produce multimedia book reviews.

They produce videos and cheat sheets in PDF format for many of current and past very popular business and personal development books. It’s a paid service on a monthly basis. You go into the membership area and you can just check out these fantastic reviews. I don’t think I’ve found anything that we’ve talked about that they haven’t done one for.

And certainly, they’re up for reviewing anything that you recommend. It’s a great way not only to find out about a new book that’s out there or a book that you might not have read, but it’s also a great way to go back over a book that you have read and remind yourself of the key points.

If you want to try out this service, go to ReadItFor.Me/PreneurCast. You can see a video there of me and Pete going through the membership area. You can see exactly the materials that are in there for the different books that they review. You can have a little trial of the service through that link.

And if you go to that link, you will get a discount on your membership fees because you’re a PreneurCast listener. So, thank you to Read It For Me for that and for helping our listeners out with their information consumptions, which is something that we’re big on. Alright, buddy. Before I lose my high at being called cool with nouns and verbs, I think we’ll wrap it up there.

Pete: Sounds good. We’ll tackle some new and exciting topics next week.

Dom: Cool. See you then, buddy.

Pete: Ciao.


Action Step: Think about the nouns that describe your customers and prospects, then think about the verbs that describe the different states and actions for those nouns, and see if you can focus some of your marketing on those verbs.

PreneurCast Episodes:
These previous episodes are talked about in today’s show. Go back and listen, if you missed them.
PreneurCast Episode 16 – The 7 Levers of Business

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