Why PR is a pointless waste of time

March 15, 2010 | By Leela Cosgrove

I’ve never been a fan of the whole PR thing — I’ve seen so many people sink time, effort and money into PR and then see no real ROI from it.

And don’t let me get started on ‘brand awareness’.

Perhaps it’s a personal bias, but I don’t believe in ‘brand awareness’ as a non-ROI activity. If you’re going to spend money on marketing, building your brand, advertising and PR, make it pay. Anything else is just a bunch of 80s/90s advertising executive rhetoric designed to justify exorbitant fees while excusing them from any kind of responsibility for the outcome.

“Yeah, so that campaign cost us $35,000. I know you haven’t seen any sales from it yet, but I think we’ve really built brand awareness amongst the 18-35 year old middle-class male demographic.”

Translation:

“The agency has spent your money on cocaine and hookers.”

Perfect example: If you’re in Melbourne, you may have seen the ridiculously large photo of me in the Herald Sun recently.

The story was, of course, pitched to me as a response to the whole Julia Gillard saying “Chicks with tattoos are sluts” thing.

Then I get the paper and there’s this completely illogical picture of me, which doesn’t seem to fit into the story at ALL.

Mind you, the headline was:

“2010: What We Really Want”

So, you know, if what Australia really wants in 2010 is The Leela, who am I to deny them?

Meanwhile, this wasn’t such a big deal. It cost me nothing. It took me all of 15 minutes to do the interview. Another 15 to do the photos. And I wasn’t counting on it as a business generator.

But this is typical of how PR works out… you get pitched one thing, another thing happens… you generate no business from it… and then wonder why you spent all that time and money trying to get it in the first place.

The only thing I can see it being good for is to be able to say on Facebook: “As seen in the Herald Sun.” And between you and me, I’m not sure that’s actually something I should be saying.

Look, the age of “stunts” — getting media coverage and making money by doing stupid stuff — is over. Especially in business. If you want to use the media to your advantage … well, that’s why God invented the interwebs!

I’ve had a significantly better response to my Anthill Rabble Rousing (I couldn’t really go so far as to call it a blog) than I have to three-quarters of a page in the Herald Sun.

Add value.

Be a real human being.

It’s not that complicated, and you don’t need an agency to do it for you.

Leela Cosgrove is Managing Director of Business Writers Anonymous, focused on sales, marketing and business development. She is also a firewalker, has a black-belt in Tae Kwon Do, a penchant for tattoos, and enjoys bands such as Rammstein, Li Bach, Marilyn Manson, Pennywise and Bad Religion.

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http://www.thesocialmediaproject.com.au emily

Thanks Leila… great read, but if PR is a load of crap, then what would you suggest as an alternative to target that “18-35 year old middle-class male demographic. or any demographic for that matter” Can you offer some insights?

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Emily – well, for starters … forget about demographics. You need to be selling to people.

PR doesn’t sell people. Yeah, sure – they’ve seen you on TV / in the paper now … woo! But that doesn’t = dollars.

Instead, profile your ideal client:

Jenny is 35, has 2 kids, lives in Brighton and works as an office manager on St Kilda Road.

When you know your clients this well, you can meet them where they are at …

Better stuff we’ve used that actually makes money:
* Strategic Alliances
* Direct Response Marketing
* Promotions at seemingly “random” places (but we knew our market well enough to know that what looked random, was actually where they were at)
* Online marketing (Social media mostly … )

All of these things have returned cold, hard, dollars (why dollars have to be cold, I’m not sure … stupid turn of phrase that one) – not just a pretty picture in the paper and some fuzzy feelings …

[Reply]
Peter Evans-Greenwood Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
It’s interesting that people don’t mind being sold to these days. Back in the day (~2000) the whole ambient marketing thing used to be much more important as you had to spend a lot of time pretending that you weren’t selling. Now you can go up to a customer / client with a straight forward value proposition and ask for cash. (Well, you can’t be that blunt, but you no longer need to pretend that you’re not selling.) The cavet is that you have to explain your proposition in their terms (i.e. how it solves their specific problem in their context) rather pitch some generic capability or product.

I expect it’s due to customers / clients becoming a lot more sophisticated about how they select and procure services and products.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
I agree completely Peter – it’s fascinating how things have changed … A good UVP (and you’re right – in THEIR language, on THEIR terms) – kills it …

I wonder if the just buying it thing was ever really gone – or whether that’s just a difference in what their teaching?

I mean – don’t get me wrong – my whole business is information marketing …

However …

Every now and then I get a catalogue or one of those yellow envelopes and I spend my time going through it, seeing if there’s anything I want to buy …

I think the internet has really changed stuff – you can do your due diligence by googleing people and seeing what comes up … you don’t necessarily need THEM to tell you why they are awesome … (although that never hurts, of course).

So I think there’s a place for both … and both have probably got slightly different target markets …
http://www.wordmistress.com.au Gina Lofaro aka the wordmistress

Leela, love your timing. I just added a piece to my blog about PR using a totally different language to what consumers would really prefer. http://www.wordmistress.com.au/content/are-you-speaking-jibberish-or-gobbledygook-today – including a quote from John F Kennedy (well, kinda!).

[Reply]
http://peter.evans-greenwood.com/ Peter Evans-Greenwood

Julia just didn’t have her priorities right; tattoos are no big deal, but the Rammstein predilection might be a concern.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
Du Hast, Peter … Feuer Frei!

[Reply]
http://www.productiseordie.com ThorSalesWarlord

Dying, of, laughing.

[Reply]
Becx Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
Leela, love your work, but Public Relations encompasses a lot more than media relations/articles in newspapers. But while we’re on the topic, I’ve had clients sell out of products within hours of publication in Famous or Shop Til You Drop. And indeed in the Herald-Sun, where the media release was run verbatim. Difference is that it spoke to the intended audience’s imperatives and was accompanied by price and stockist number as CTA. We would never recommend clients participate in this type of story, because we are spending our time on activities that do support specific objectives. And because, as you discovered, it’s risky.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Meh, I wouldn’t call it risky … didn’t really bother me in the slightest … found the whole thing quite amusing, really!

But I’ve seen the same thing happen time and again to clients who’ve gone and spooked up a bunch of media exposure … only to find that they make absolutely no sales from it …

One of our clients is actually a regular commentator on issues in her industry for the press … and while she might get a few sign ups for her newsletter and other free stuff … she rarely sells anything on the backend of it.

I hear what you’re saying Becx – but I suspect that said products could have as easily been sold out without the help of PR… and probably for far less of a cost …

[Reply]
Peter Evans-Greenwood Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
The best you can hope for from general PR sprays is to be front of mind the next time a customer identifies a need, as (hopefully) they have associated you with the need. It’s not going to create the need though. I seriously doubt that this works anymore, in today’s complex and ever changing information environment people have very short attention spans.

The stuff Becx mentions falls in a sightly different bucket, as I assume that this is a spread about a specific product targeted at a specific audience. It’s like getting J.Lo to take a handbag you made to the Oscars; the result is a little brand awareness, and a lot of sales of that specific handbag. As with all campaign tactics of this type, it should pretty easy to measure ROI.

The only exception to this that I can think of is conferences. There’s been a few times that I’ve presented at a conference only to have a long chat with an audience member after the presentation, eventually leading the sale.

(That said, I expect Tiger Woods is currently having a negative impact on Accenture. Which raises the interesting point: does negative PR like Mr Wood’s life journey have a greater impact than any positive PR you can generate, as people no longer want to associate with your brand?)

r.

PEG

p.s. Still working my way through Can’s Tago Mago to get over the unnecessary Rammstein reference.

Becx Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Glad you weren’t ruffled, Leela (yours was fairly positive, if unremarkable), but I’m the first to declare that ‘uncontrolled media’ can be risky. The journalist is hardly going to tell you if they’re writing a piece on sweatshops, for instance, when requesting a quote on fast fashion.

I can’t comment on your client’s specific circumstances but in my experience that approach may be used to posiition a person as an industry leader (you know it well), but never linked directly to an outcome. It must play to one or another goals, though, to bother.

And I think you’d be surprised – we’re talking product having to be brought back from outlets after being presented in a new light, to the right people, and placed to coincide with other non-media PR tactics.

But I respect your opinion and am sorry about your experience with PR. I also don’t disagree that there is a lot of over-billing and over-promising around, (why I gave up working for other peoples’ agencies).
Thanks for getting the discussion going – it’s obviously hit some nerves!
http://allconsuming.blogspot.com kim at allconsuming

Well now I just feel robbed. I worked in PR in the mid-90s (never felt comfortable in the field largely because I really wanted to be a journo but also because I felt we were selling clients totally unrealistic pipe dreams and billing them for it all even when they never materialised) and never saw any hookers or cocaine. ROBBED!

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Dude … that SUCKS!

Maybe you can start some kind of Facebook Group?

“I worked in PR in the Mid-90′s and all I got was this lousy feeling that they were keeping the cocaine and hookers from me!”

Frog – Meet Sock. It’s time to go off!

[Reply]
kim at allconsuming Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
You know something – Facebook won’t let you create a group with a name that long. OH THE INJUSTICE!

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Dude … it’s like the world is out to get you or something!!!

Did you piss off the Illuminati at some point?!
http://YourWebsite Nigel Malone

Hi Leela,
there’s good and bad examples out there of every form of marketing – even your own.

It seems to me you are simply using a ‘controversial’ statement to generate yourself some PR. (By the way ‘controversy’ is one of those 80/90’s tactics you hate so much – think Benneton, grim reaper, etc). You have however proved your point partially, as the exercise did nothing to improve your standing in my eyes as anyone but a rabble rouser – that old 80’s tactic again, except now they are buying tattoos and Rammstein on itunes it seems.

Don’t get me wrong, I love a rabble rouser, if they can back it up with some depth, a better solution, genuine evidence, a different way… not simply criticize for the sake of it and then reflect on their own self-importance. But I’m clearly not your target market.

I don’t profess to be a PR expert by a long shot, but I don’t dismiss something simply because I don’t fully understand it. There are plenty of great examples out there of PR campaigns that have worked. They don’t get any better than this. Got plenty more once you’ve shot enough holes in that one

http://www.digitalbuzzblog.com/best-job-in-the-world-case-study/

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Oh, I understand it Nigel.

I’ve had so many of my clients come to me after dropping $20k on agencies who don’t deliver and then blame them … tell them they need to spend MORE money on TV advertising etc and so forth.

Sure – there are people who have gotten results. There are also people who win the lottery. Doesn’t prove anything.

The majority of people I know have gotten little to NO tangible results from thousands of dollars sunk into “PR”.

If you can show me an agency that has gotten every single one of it’s clients tangible ROI (not just one or two case studies) – I’ll eat my hat. With a public apology.

Lolz … PR? Hardly … what would be the point of trying to gain PR by attacking PR? All it does is gets a lot of very bitter little PR types being mean all over Twitter …

Merely expressing a view point … not, believe it or not, for the sake of “rabble rousing” – but because I genuinely care about the clients I’ve seen ROBBED by PR Agencies time and again.

The people I’ve seen taken for tens of thousands of dollars by some of the very people now attacking me on Twitter (I won’t name them because that’s not my style).

What do I gain by telling the truth the way I see it?

Not much – apart from being attacked … yay! Lucky me!

What do all of these “PR Experts” gain by attacking me … ahhh … tens of thousands of dollars for being inept and lying to clients.

Interesting.

[Reply]
http://www.carveconsulting.com.au/wp/international/ Sarah Thomas

Hey Leela – great article, particularly your advice about how you can use the ‘interweb’ to your advantage – its so easy for businesses to reach their customers directly now.

I do have one issue with the article that wouldn’t exist if you were to substitute the word ‘PR’ with ‘publicity’ – I agree with Becx that PR is more than just media relations and articles in newspapers which is simply publicity, not PR.

[Reply]
becx Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Sarah, you’re completely right. Just goes to show what a huge misconception there is about public relations and its sub-disciplines – even among such esteemed marketers as Ms Cosgrove. If we write it out in full, maybe it will jog memories about its role in cultivating and maintaining RELATIONShips between an organisation and its publics.

Peter, my inclusion of this example in that breathless retort probably did little to combat the dominant view, but the tactic product placement (which includes celebrity seeding, and either there’s an immediate spike in traffic to store/e-comm and/or sales, or there’s not) is the obvious area where one might talk direct link to sales as an outcome.

In this vein, let us not forget that there is no guarantee that buying a 1/2 page ad for $7,000+ (not to mention the creative fees) will boost sales, either.

And Peter, thanks for bringing up issues and crisis management – great example of a completely different desired outcome. Keeping a brand out of the media and managing the type and duration of attention. I don’t think their PRs are being judged on sales leads!

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
In fact, it probably won’t – I hate mainstream advertising … it’s mostly even more of a pointless waste of time …

Hmmm … well if PR is about the creation of Relationships (which is like a whole other can of worms I don’t really want to open … I do disagree, but let’s say you’re right) then it DEFINITELY should not be outsourced …

That’s like outsourcing your social networking … I hate when people do that.

But even your relationships should have ROI.

I don’t believe in doing anything in business that doesn’t show you some form of ROI … what’s the point of celebrity endorsements if they don’t increase sales? What’s the point in more web traffic if people don’t buy? What’s the point of a picture of a model in a full page advertisement, with no copywriting or call to action?

This whole

“Ohhhh It’s not measurable” thing is a cop out.

Either you can show me a return, or you can’t.

And it seems that PR agencies NEVER can.

It’s all “soft” return – which, to me, is a pointless waste of time.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
And further …

If the point of PR is to manage perceptions … and PR is generally suffering from people seeing it in the wrong light … hasn’t it, by definition, failed?
http://blogs.hillandknowlton.com/mediaandcrisis Grant Smith

I’m pretty old fashioned about most things, so when it comes to definitions of “PR” I like to use an oldy but a goody by Cutlip, Center and Broom: “Public relations is a function of management that seeks to build and maintain mutually beneficial relationships between an organisation and its publics.” Show me where in that definition it says the words “sales”, “marketing” or “media”, and I’ll come round and eat that hat for you.

[Reply]
kim at allconsuming Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Ah, I like this a lot. But, I do love a good hat eatage.

[Reply]
Nigel Malone Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Thanks Grant – a definition can bring everything back into perspective, and reinforces my point to Leela – don’t criticise what you don’t understand.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
You know my favourite non come-back, come-back?

The constant repetition of … oh, but you don’t understand. No, you just don’t understand …

Religious Zealots use this one ALL the time …

Oh, you’d be Christian / Islamic / Hindu / Wiccan (whatever) if you understood … you just don’t understand.

It’s the lazy mans debate method.

[Reply]
Jen Bishop Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
There are bad PR people and there are very good PR people (probably less of them, but still). I’m the first to whinge about the sloppy ones, but there really are some very smart and talented PR people out there. Good PR is a skill. Another cliche, but you really shouldn’t tar a whole profession with the same brush.

nigel Malone Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Hi Leela – apologies for the delay, I was tending to family affairs:) So, I guess to summarise, in hindsight I would have phrased the title of the article differently – “Is PR a pointless waste of time?” This may have opened up a completely different line of discussion. We may have learnt about success stories in PR, just as well as failures and what the secrets of success and avoiding failure were – from our very qualified audience. This would have been of benefit to all. We may have also discovered ways to measure the success or ROI from PR if such a thing is possible. Or we could have confirmed your hunch that PR is a complete waste of time. Just telling us that PR IS a waste of time, based on a sample size of 1 (you) and no real evidence to back it up is a little difficult to swallow for me. Basing the worth of everything on ROI is just as problematic. Is there a tangible, measurable ROI method for positive thinking, word of mouth, meditation or even social marketing for that matter? Doesn’t mean they have no value… That’s it from your lazy-debater, ayatollah, no-come-back kid:) I look forward to your next article. Keep stirring the pot:)
http://YourWebsite Sam

I love your article – its a fantastic example of crap writing. It shows exactly why the PR industry needs to exist to give people like you fodder to continue writing, whether its something we are touting or just for you to whinge about your bad experience.

PR is a lot more than just media relations, positioning, perceptions. It’s about those relationships and creating a platform for engagement, understanding and interaction. PR gives companies and organisations a say and a voice. Something which people like you stripe anyway, because you feel too small to do something worthy other than write a rant.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 9:14 am
Lol.

My writing is crap?

Sounds like a bunch of double talking corporate jargon to me …

How, precisely, does one “create a platform for engagement, understanding and interaction”

You PR chicks are SO FUNNY!

OMG! Someone said something mean about our industry so we’re going to

1. Take it personally and therefore attack you personally.

2. WHINGE about how you’ve invalidated us … grow up! Get a freaking backbone!

And come up with a better insult than my writing sucks … because of ALL the insults that could possibly be leveled at me – that’s the one that holds the least amount of truth.

Too small to write anything worthy – eh? At least I’m not so small that I attack people with a first name and no link … at least I write my rants with full disclosure of who I am.

But again … as normal … the hecklers come out with first name and no links to call ME small and cowardly.

I’ll talk to you when you feel valid enough to write your full name and link to your website, Sam – until then – you’re just another troll.

[Reply]
John Tolhurst Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Can I use this response of yours, you’ve written ever so much more nicely than I could. I could give you the byline. Then if I could see a picture of your tat I’d feel our relationship was practically consumated.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Did you not SEE my picture in the paper?!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3396342&l=6b54dc0284&id=637324720

And here’s one of my puppy for good measure …

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2547772&l=d8b6fdd645&id=637324720

Peter Evans-Greenwood Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
The design community is going through the same conniptions over explaining the value of design, and trying to sell design thinking, but missing the point that few customers care about the (voodoo based) process, but they do care about the outcome. Anyone who raises this point is written off as clueless by the non-believers.

“Worthy” my arse. If PR/design can sell more beer/wine/hotdogs/… then business will pay for it. If it doesn’t, then meh.

But then… it’s been ages since I’ve seen a decent flame war

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Oh tell me you’ve SEEN my Why I Hate Logo’s post, Peter? In which I say pretty much the same thing about the design industry.

You rock.

We should have a beer.

Peter Evans-Greenwood Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Na… Haven’t seen it but I’ll go have a look after submitting this comment. I’ve been more focused on pointing out that the consulting industry is broken and heading for irrelevance (http://peter.evans-greenwood.com/2010/02/25/consulting-doesnt-work-any-more-we-need-to-reinvent-it/).

Beer’s always good. (I’m actually heading off for a few now.) Bing @pevansgreenwood if you’re expect to be at a loose end and we’ll see what happens.

Danielle Griffey Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
I’ve been looking over the comments in this discussion with interest as I work in advertising. I had no intention of adding in a comment of my own until Leela was accused of crap writing.
If you truly have a real contribution to the discussion, then make it, but don’t mess up an interesting debate by insulting the other person just because they have come out with a point of view that differs from yours.
So far I’ve seen valid points on both sides, although the point that I’m most inclined to agree with is that whether or not a PR campaign delivers has far more to do with the PR person really know their stuff.
Yes, other than seeing cold hard cash flow in immediately, it can be difficult to gauge the affectivities of the campaign. But the same can be said for all types of advertising. We can see how well tv has rated, how many people bought the paper, how many people should have walked past your bill board and hopefully taken a look, but none of this means anything is you don’t have clientele trooping through your doors to hand over their hard earned cash.
When it comes down to it, PR is another form of advertising, every bit as relevant as the other forms, and like all forms of advertising, needs to be delivered in a way that will gain the attention of your target audience, and delivered where you will find your target audience.

[Reply]
http://www.cdnXite.com Dennis

Leela, How will you promote my site

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Dennis – not sure what you’re asking here?

I mean – the short answer is – I won’t.

But are you asking how you should?

[Reply]
Dennis Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Yes, that is was I asking, how should I.
At the moment I am selling/consulting to my existing client database.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
That’s potentially a long and personalised answer – but I’d start with: Define your Niche, Figure out your UVP. Everything from there is tactics – Where are your niche? Online – Facebook? Twitter? Anthill? Offline – the local coffee shop? The local bottle shop? The local bookstore?

Get the UVP in front of them where they’re at – give them a way to opt into your stuff … grow that existing database and develop that relationship because your DB is freaking GOLD – if taken care of and worked right.

That’s kinda the “Marketing Basics 101″ overview …

Dennis Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Cheers, Leela.
Next time you video an Event (just checked out the video on your website), ask him/she not to drink.

Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Ha ha … that was a bootleg, totally unprofessional recording … it was never supposed to be released … I didn’t even know they’d shot it until afterwards … but I love it for that.

It’s raw.

It’s real.

It’s what it is …

Just like me.

And my clients get that …
http://www.newsbusiness.com.au David Bateson

Hi Leela

Isn’t writing a regular (and rabble rousing) column for Australian Anthill a form of PR?

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
So everyone keeps saying … but really, I just do it for fun … because I like it that people have to listen to me when I rant about stuff.

There’s OBVIOUSLY not a strategy behind it …

Unless the strategy was:

“How many industries can you piss off in a year?”

I mean, alienating web designers, PR people etc isn’t very clever PR is it?

Luckily – it doesn’t hurt my business because no one cares about PR …

[Reply]
David Bateson Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
I dunno. There is a PR tactic called ‘throwing a brick’. These days it’s called ‘consult your defamation lawyers… and then throw a brick (or perhaps just a pebble’

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Is there one called beat a horse to death with a brick? Because that’s kinda closer to what I do …

I don’t have to consult defamation lawyers – I’m very good at only attacking the general, non-definable industry / argument etc until someone personally goes me … and then I’m more defendy than attacky.

But really, I’m just amusing myself … I wouldn’t read too much into it …
http://themarketingmuscle.wordpress.com Laynie – the Marketing Muscle

Very enjoyable post and threads this afternoon. Nothing happens until a sale is made … regardless of what tactics you use. Until a sale is made, then it’s just lazy marketing with a weak “call to action”. And I don’t care how pretty your creative is, or how many awards your agency wins.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Damn freaking straight.

Stop paying PR agencies and get the hell on the phone.

You’re a woman after my own heart.

[Reply]
http://YourWebsite Hannah

Leila,

Interesting perspective but PR is not about pulling stunts and doing “stupid stuff”. This is a very simplistic understanding of the field. PR involves many of the things you have listed as “better stuff” characteristic of your field – online marketing using social media, random promotions, product placement and strategic alliances (between key media publications and brands). I agree with some of the other comments that you are confusing PR with straight up publicity. However in saying that, publicity has amazing results in particular fields – entertainment PR for example…

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
No – the better stuff I talk about is not “public relations” – it’s actually MARKETING to people. Just because you use the same channels does not mean you’re doing the same thing.

There’s a huge difference between what PR agencies do and what marketers do …

Not the least of which is that I can measure my ROI. I can tell you my exact return on investment from Facebook and Twitter. And my ROI on strategic alliances …

So, hold on a second – if this IS what you guys do … how come it’s just not possible to give us some ROI figures?

[Reply]
http://www.zakazukha.com Bruce Nelson

Good post – we’re looking for a PR agent in Melbourne – interested?

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Bahahah … I’ve had, like, three people call me and ask me the same thing … lolz!

Love the Propaganda thing … I use that a LOT in my stuff … rather than marketing … Propaganda.

Funky.

[Reply]
http://www.uniquevaluepropositions.com.au Leela Cosgrove

I’ve gotta say – I think the bit that most of you PR types have missed is that I’m a horribly, horribly greedy capitalist.

If there was ANY money in PR, I’d be first on the bandwagon.

I’ve just NEVER seen it … what money is claimed to have been raised by PR often looks like it’s more attributable to Marketing … but in most cases there’s not even any ROI.

As a bootstrapper the idea of anything that’s not done for ROI is abhorrent to me …

I’m sure that corporates have the money and time to waste employing people to relate to people (does my head in) … but at the coal face it all just looks like a bunch of touchy feely crap.

And that’s not helped by a lack of proof from the PR chicks in the last 52 comments … they choose, instead, to say I’m wrong … but no proof … *shrugs*

Not really gonna make anyone change their mind, now, is it …

And I want to thank everyone who HASN’T posted for the flood of emails and phone calls in support … appreciated!

[Reply]
http://YourWebsite Belinda Pritchard

I feel like maybe I am missing something… or looking at this article too simply… but I dont really see how the only example given relates to “why PR is a pointless waste of time”.

Even though the article in the paper was 3/4 of a page it really had nothing to do with the value you offer as a successful businesswoman who teaches real value to your many clients…. and the link to the article you gave above has nothing to do with you in it at all… and from the look of it you didnt have a professional PR agency working on this article for you… so how does that example back up your original statement..???

This, to me, doesnt seem at all what PR is about and therefore isnt relevant as to “why PR is a pointless waste of time”.

I may be a lay-person when it comes to PR (especially print media based PR)… but I would have thought that not getting any real information about you (other than the fact you have tattoos) and your business is why this article wouldnt bring a ROI…. Effective PR should produce results! I know you have clients that use PR quite effectively to gain exposure and more buyers… one of which it seems that you cant turn on the TV without seeing her face these days (and I think she rocks for it!).

Just my 2 cents!

[Reply]
Peter Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 8:30 am
On today’s ABC News website there is a story about research that has shown that more than half of the newspaper stories in Australian papers have been generated by PR firms. (Not that those stories have necessarily generated any extra sales, but it is an interesting result).

[Reply]
Peter Evans-Greenwood Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 8:44 am
I like Reverse PR: http://www.reversepr.com.au/ You submit your press release / story, and journalists can scrape the site for stuff to write about. It removes the PR agency from the equation. And it costs nothing.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 11:01 am
Makes no difference when it IS Belinda – you know the awesome Amanda Cox … you know how much media she’s had over the last 4 months.

Not a single cent in revenue from it.

See Peter – that’s the thing. I don’t CARE how much media is generated from it … I care about the ROI.

I’ve seen too many people get press coverage and not make money from it …

[Reply]
Belinda Pritchard Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Didnt Amanda Cox get any members in her Bad Mothers Club yet? Or any attendees at the Launch of the Bad Mothers Club? Has she not sold any advertising space? Has she sold any products from her Real Mums site?

I find it hard to believe she hasnt sold a single cent from being in the public eye. But if its really true that no money has been made then why didnt you use that example… Or has Amanda not had a PR agency getting her this PR..?? And it seems to be the high paid agencies you are saying are the waste of money…

“Yeah, so that campaign cost us $35,000. I know you haven’t seen any sales from it yet, but I think we’ve really built brand awareness amongst the 18-35 year old middle-class male demographic.”

Translation:

“The agency has spent your money on cocaine and hookers.”

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 11:57 am
Find it as hard to believe as you like … actually, even better – give her a call and ask her yourself.

I didn’t use her as an example as I didn’t have her permission to do so when the article went to print.

What difference would it make if there was an agency getting her on TV or not? The outcome would have been the same …

But hey – if you know better Belinda …

Give me examples of where PR has returned ROI. That’s all I’m looking for. Not one or two isolated incidents, but ongoing return on investment.

Laynie - the Marketing Muscle Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Can I just ask a simple question? Who’s Amanda Cox? Tried Google but I’m still in the dark.

Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
Laynie – she runs an AWESOME group called the Bad Mothers Club … she’s also known as “Mad Cow” …
http://www.travelbrochures.com.au Andrew Thompson

Right ON, Leela! Add to that all “brand awareness” advertising and you’ve got my vote.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Hate, hate, HATE 99% of advertising.

Like this crap with the banks at the moment.

Hey, instead of putting money into REAL stuff … let’s WASTE it on new logos and adverts of children running around (thank you PR department) – because that will get people trusting us again after the GFC.

We won’t, like, get rid of the fees that we only have in Australia … which would probably cost about the same …

No … no … let’s do a bunch of scratchy postcards instead.

[Reply]
http://www.bowespr.com Chris Bowes

Am I missing something? Leela says: “My whole business is information marketing.”

I’m in PR and I say: “My whole business is information marketing.”

Maybe what we both do is not so different. So perhaps this article is really about marketing convergence.

I just don’t understand why you need to denigrate PR people in order to make your point. That’s actually not good PR, imho.

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Your industry isn’t marketing. It’s PR. Otherwise you’d be a marketer.

As a marketer I’m held accountable for the results I get. I return HARD ROI – in a measurable, strategic fashion.

If I don’t – I get fired.

I certainly don’t spend +/-$20k of people’s money and then tell them that their product can’t be sold (as happened to a client of ours before they met us … we got them ROI in less than a week).

I don’t deal in intangibles. In warm and fuzzies. I don’t deal in “relations” – which is not to say I don’t create relationships, that’s a large part of what I do – however, they are relationships with measurable ROI.

[Reply]
http://www.uniquevaluepropositions.com.au Leela Cosgrove

I do find it interesting that the ONLY people defending the PR industry are people in it.

Is there anyone outside of the industry who wants to defend it???

ANYONE???

[Reply]
Belinda Pritchard Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
I am not in PR at all… and I still stand by my original thoughts on the subject.
Although, I believe good PR is not a pointless waste of time… It is true that if done badly (like any marketing done badly) it may very well be a waste.
For more info of great PR is history…
http://www.prmuseum.com/

What may be considered a much bigger waste of time… is chiming in on discussions I actually dont care about personally and doesnt serve me any purpose professionally purely because I dont agree with the original article

So although I still stand by my statements so far… Im not sure Leela is thinking of PR in the same way that the actual definition defines it… so at this stage arguing based on opinion of something only is really where this endeavor becomes pointless for me.

Love your work Leela… Your Information Product Sessions ROCK and your knowledge on UVP is above anyone I know… and rabble rousing and controversy works for you… But for me its possibly much more of a pointless waste of time to keep arguing as it serves no purpose personally or professionally!

Enjoy the ride!!

[Reply]
http://www.howorth.com.au Emilio Robles

And this explains this post very well: http://anthillonline.com/flame-wars-101-a-guide-to-profiting-from-your-disagreeable-nature/

Feeling used, anyone?

[Reply]
Nigel Malone Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
show me the dummy

[Reply]
Peter Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Well spotted. It explains a lot.

[Reply]
Peter Evans-Greenwood Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Feel used? No. The referenced post is just a complaint the most bloggers/media spends so much time trying to avoid offending anyone that they never say anything insightful or interesting.

Take the whole Bloom box thing: New Scientist is the only media I’ve seen that hasn’t bought into the breathless “it’s gonna change the world” spin. Most blogger swallowed the spin, hook, line and sinker. This is despite Bloom selling an old, and they’re not even the first to market. You can already buy similar products as a consumer in the UK.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527505.600-bloom-didnt-start-a-fuelcell-revolution.html
On the other hand, it’s a good example of where effective PR is still having an impact. They completely suckered the a-list bloggers

[Reply]
Leela Cosgrove Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
OH MY GOD EMILIO! You are SO SO clever! You found a post I wrote after my LAST flame war and used it in reference to THIS flame war and that totally shows why PR is awesome and I suck.

Well done you!

[Reply]
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[...] Why PR is a pointless waste of time | Anthill Magazine [...]
http://YourWebsite Nathan

I think Mr Robles may have hit the nail on the head here.. What a great piece of self promotion. However the risk here is to propose that there is a one size fits all approach to every marketing/PR challenge. Some may benefit from media relations, some may benefit from social media, some from direct marketing – the key is to find the right person/people to guide you through those challenges whatever they choose to call themselves be that PR, marketing or whatever…

[Reply]
http://www.businessflightpath.com Greg Roworth

Hey Leela, I’d like to weigh in with my observation that there are 2 sets of rules for marketing. One set applies to big businesses with deep pockets who can afford to spend a lot of time and money to “get their name out there” and another set of rules for the small businesses who need to get a dollar or more back in sales for every minute or dollar they spend on marketing.

Unfortunately, most of the marketing education we get is from those talking about marketing like the big guys. Thanks for speaking up for us small business types and helping us get focused on how to get sales and income without wasting our money senselessly like the big guys do.

[Reply]
http://www.newsbusiness.com.au/blog/?p=514 Throw a brick | NewsBusiness

[...] the recent Crikey article and Leela Cosgrove on Anthill “Why PR is a pointless waste of time” (ironic really given the subject matter!) Tags: [...]
http://whynotwa.wordpress.com/2010/04/15/pr-is-it-a-waste-of-time-for-start-ups-and-is-there-a-better-way/ PR? Is it a waste of time for start-ups and is there a better way? « whynotWA

[...] I was searching the web to find others who thought the same and came across this on Australian Anthill. http://anthillonline.com/why-pr-is-a-pointless-waste-of-time/ [...]

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