Why fret? The Anthill under 30 awards is just a big ego trip + backslap of friends.

Awards only reward mediocrity. True success is what it means to you.

Anthill recently has been sidetracked / hijacked by ulterior motives. Case in point: They've got a 22 year old “expert” touting venture capital, when he's failed 3 businesses, and at 22 has little life or tertiary education experience. Smooth talker though. Apparently that's all that matters.

It's sad that Anthill is obsessed with venture capital, and underhandedly disses standard profitable business models. Read the recent articles and decide for yourself. The standard mantra seems to be: “You're not a REAL business person unless you are an 'ENTREPRENEUR' who seeks VENTURE CAPITAL”.

Wake up guys. Venture capital has been, and always will be a minority factor where “ideas and business meet”.

Anthill: Please don't get butt-hurt by these comments. I'm just brave enough to say it as it is. Perhaps read: http://anthillonline.com/why-i-don’t-trust-bran…

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Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 5:26 pm

Well, there you go Phillip, more pre-judging by age, not really fair I say. And as we all know that it is by failing that we learn so I am not exactly with you on that either.
I have had my fair share of problems with getting investment from angels (devils).
But all a learning curve as to how I could have avoided them. Anyway good to hear you opinion but a bit dramatic in languge use. Do you have any business history that we could follow you on?

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Philip James Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 2:06 am

Stating that a 22 year has less life experience than a 40 year old, is not judging. It's a fact.

Wow!! By failing we learn!! Yes, why don't we just keeping failing our entire life then!!! Stop glorifying losing and start winning.

PS. “Quitober” is not an effective pun. Nice initiative though.

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Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

Thanks for the feedback. The way i look at it Philip is that anything less than perfect is a failure. So I am just trying to fail a little bit less every day. Never met a “winner” in business or one that called themselves a winner.

I think I can always do better.

Regards “Quitober” not being an effective punn, it is good to see that it caught your atention though.
I agree that it is certainly not a perfect domain name, but it was cheap & unused. I am hoping that it is quirky enough to catch some more peoples attention.
Worth a try I feel.
Have you got any sugestions for a more effective punn
(Actually known as a portmanteau of the words October and Quitting)

Glad you like the initiative.

James Tuckerman - Anthill Mag Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

Didn't Kerry Packer say something like the person who succeeds 60% of the time will rule the world? I've met many people in big companies so averse to failure that they never try anything new. They're either myopic or just too afraid to take a risk.

On the other hand, I've never met anyone successful who wasn't prepared to take a risk.

I'm not talking about 'betting the farm'. I think that entrepreneurs embrace failures – just manageable ones. Personally, I take countless, small manageable risks every day.

Because for every decision there is a “But what if…” that will accompany it. Progress is about making sure that whatever the 'worst case scenario' is, it's manageable.

James Tuckerman - Anthill Mag Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 5:46 pm

You certainly flamed by butt hole like a troll-cooked curry (spicy!). Of course, I'm writing as the founder/editor, who sets the tone and direction of Anthill.

But give a guy some credit!

1. We pushed back other stories (including one on VC, I suspect) in favour of an article that blatantly conflicts with other programs we are running at this time. That's a practice that we're kind of proud of. In fact, we actively seek rebuttals. Like…

http://anthillonline.com/hidden-pizza-restauran…
http://anthillonline.com/yellow-pages-responds-…

And…

http://anthillonline.com/rebuttal-pr-is-more-th…
http://anthillonline.com/why-pr-is-a-pointless-…

2. By throwing out multiple opinions, we get your feedback and can steer the direction of our little ship. On that note, we run VC stories because there seems to be a demand for them. But we also try to cover important things that don't get traction elsewhere because they don't drive traffic. (Like recent changes to the R&D tax concession. What a rort!). We might be brash. But we watch and we do listen. Hence, the article above.

3. Failure ain't such a bad thing. In fact, it's a criteria that we look for in our 30under30 awards. Last year, a big electronics importer entered. The business behind the application was astonishing (very impressive) but the founder was not able to express any hurdles overcome. Was the applicant entrepreneurial or just lucky? Also, our applicants are judged against other people their age. Twenty-two is a young age to be buying, raising, selling, starting, ending, employing, firing… and failing.

I'm not sure what our 'ulterior motives' are (if it means that we can turn Anthill into a sustainable powerhouse, I'm all antennas). But I appreciate your question.

In fact, I could not have asked for a better Dorothy Dixer. Because the crux of the comment and the post is one about age and 'discrimination'. That's the dirty word that seems to have been avoided in the article and in the comments. It's an inflammatory word because, in essence, it's about excluding one group of people to the advantage of another. And no one likes to be excluded.

Our decisions are driven by demand AND need (I'll explain what I mean by that at another time). So, keep the comments coming. As above, we are listening.

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Dan Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

Good stuff James.
Overall, stick to the young market, it is a great niche and the older readers are clearly tagging along for the ride anyway. As i said in my post above the young need training and assistance to learn the craft. After a certain point in life it is time to set the main sail and head on out!

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Carl Taylor Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:08 pm

I would want to get advice from a guy who has failed in 3 businesses over someone who has not started one at all any day. At least then I know there are real lessons learnt and realistic expectations.

I myself am biased by age to your comment as I am 24 and have had 5 business thus far, have they all succeeded spectacularly without challenges – no way… but have I learnt lessons through each one – absolutely.

I do agree, Capital Raising is not a must to actually be in business… but its great that the information is being shared. The more information, the better decisions you can make.

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Philip James Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 1:55 am

I'd rather get advice from a guy who has failed in 3 businesses, over a toddler too. You know what, why don't we just get advice from someone who has actually succeeded?
The crime in this case, is that the person in question actively claims to be an expert, and bends the truth about his failed past.

Those who can do it. Those who can't teach it. This guy belongs in the second category.

Wow yes, failure is great! Yes we can learn from it! But you know what's better? -getting experienced advice from someone who has proved they can do it!!!

Stop glorifying mediocrity.

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LachyW Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 10:52 am

Why not get advice from everyone you possibly can?

I'll refer you to a past Anthill article by Sahil Merchant:

http://anthillonline.com/why-chief-coffee-drink…

Your job as a sapient being is to listen to a broad range of information and determine which is valuable and which might not be.

What's really lame is semi-anonymously (both yourself, as you don't link to website; and the 22 year old you are talking about) singling out someone for persecution. You seem to have some sort of vendetta, well this website is not your public lynching platform.

For the record, I know who you're refering to and I can vouch for him, he's on the level and I know I would definitely seek him out for advice.

Not fretting but I agree. 'Young entrepreneurs' should be anyone who is young in terms of starting a business e.g. under 5's (those under 5 years in their own start up). It shouldn't be an age. Not sure if fact but I've read that those in their 30s are normally more successful in a start up & if Anthill wants to support an innovative Australia, I think the focus needs to come off age, whilst still getting age in there i.e. under 5's…

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Good article Richard, well from my point of view that is, as a 50 yo entrepreneur. However
I am in an ideal situation for such risks as I don't have the kids, wife or xwife double mortgage etc. And how’s this I can even move into my mum’s place while she is OS for the next 4 months. I guess one has to do what one has to do to get ones pet project off the ground. So it seems that there is no exact pigeon hole someone can be place in by age or sex, height, weight, religion etc. Not really a surprise.

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Well said Richard.
My thoughts excactly, and I have advised Anthill of them!
At age 58 I am currently undertaking the risk of a new venture which has my own funding and 18 months of time and effort.
All without guarantee or parents to go home to! And no government assistance!
The beauty is that is feel as if I am only 30 and starting all over again!
And yet I am happy to meet with 30 somethings and share my knowledge and experience – for nothing. As long as I don't have to go out partying!

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Agreed. Ideas, vision, passion are not age specific. Perhaps younger age does have security benefits, but leadership, knowledge and wisdom is attached to the journey that youth is yet to experience. Thank-you for this post.

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I love any support of innovation and entrepreneurial support and recognition.

One might argue entrepreneurs are born not taught, if this is true the over 50's have likely had a hand at this game before hand in many cases.. I know that one day I will be in my 50s and I will be surprised if I am not still innovating and giving new disruptive technologies a plug… Great article and an angle I had yet to consider..

Gold.. love the banter it has created.. If you are in your 50's and you are innovative why not start an over 50s award.. easy.. I wish you well and look forward to submitting in 12 years

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James Tuckerman - Anthill Mag Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 8:13 am

Hypothetically speaking…

If Anthill were to create some sort of awards or recognition program for over 50s:

1. Would that be a good idea?
2. What would be the base age (50?)

And most importantly…

3. What would be a great name for such an initiative?

The name matters strangely a great deal because it must win buy in from the target audience, clearly articulate the purpose of the program and have 'zing'.

Any thoughts?

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Richard Andrews Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 8:46 am

Great idea! How about “Boomerpreneur of the Year” or something similar? Remember Colonel Sanders didnt start KFC until he was in his mid-sixties!!

Suggest Anthill partner this up with some specialist seminars aimed at first-time entrepreneurs over a certain age, plus a blog from an existing boomerpreneur, say like Tom McKaskill.

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David Moore Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:15 am

I think 50 is too high. Maybe because I am 43, but mainly because I think the maturity for entrepenuereal spirit (man I can't think how to spell that right now) starts at around 35.
If it is about NOT wasting money and effort, 35 seems like a fair age.
Point taken though, the oldies are behind the 8-ball.

What about calling it “Entrepenanna!”

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Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:01 pm

What about GOM Club, that is Grumpy old Men Club.
No I dont think so James as Steve just said to me who would want to hang around with just old blokes. I think we all have something to contribute from the young to old so I don't think you are heading in the right direction but what would I know I am just one of those GOM

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Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:49 pm

What about or Greytrepreneur!!

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Dan Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

How about 'The Colonel' – after that Sanders guy that had a road built through his chicken restaurant in his 60s and then drove across america having his recipe truned down.

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Look out James – we may have awakened a whole new market for you here!

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I too am disappointed in the emphasis on the up to 35s or so. They have their place and needs I am sure, but as someone else said, I am happy to mix with them but please don't expect me to party with them.
I am a 59er, have a lot of experience in businesses and changing technology and only want for some information and mentoring/advice in how to match my experience with a very different technology than I was taught prior to only 10 or 15 years ago. I am even surprised just how much marketing and general business practice has change in very recent years.
We 45 to 50 plusers have very different needs, no awards programs please, we just want to learn and get on with the job.

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If no one cultivates entrepreneurship at a young age and builds it as part of the culture how do you expect people to be entrepreneurial at a much older age. The younger people a introduced to creative thinking the better. Australia has lots of catching up to do when it comes to entrepreneurship and programs celebrating young achievers is a stepping stone towards developing an innovative culture in Australia. One key feature of entrepreneurs is their ability to appreciate the success of other, young or old, the writer of this article does not seem to be promoting entrepreneurship.

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MADinMelbourne Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:15 pm

do you have proof for your claim? Who are we behind? Who's leading the way in an entrepreneurial manner? Who can prove that an entrepreneurial spirit is trained from youth? As far as the writer not seeming to promote entrepreneurship… entrepreneurs DO question, DO rebutt ideas, DO have opinions and DO challenge preconceived ideas rather than simply having an opinion about them.

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Great article Richard.
I'd been thinking the same thing.
I remember knowing everything at that age and being particularly adverse to planning for anything let alone a business or the future.
Has that changed with the current generation?

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Yeh! Finally someone has come out and said what I've been thinking… blast these under 30's… Oh god I sound old. I agree that recognition should be made for effort not age. I started my business at 38 because I couldn't get a job! It was starve or start. I was overqualified or underqualified for anything. 8 years later and ticking along nicely it has taken at least 4-5 of those years to establish a client base. Some businesses or ideas take time and perseverance.

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Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:55 pm

I dont agree Julie I think Richard is being very positive about entrepreneurs in general. I ask this question what sport in the world singles out under 30's? I can't think of any, only under 21's in soccer for example. So I say once we are over 21 then we are all in this together regardless of age. It is hard enough to be an entrepreneur & hard enough to find a group of like minded people to split us up at this point in such an early stage of entrepreneural development in Australia.

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I suppose that being an Entrepreneur in your 30's means that you have the energy and longevity required to see it through. However, when I did my first start-up in my 30's my excess energy was not 100% effective due to lack of experience at that time.

I decided to do another startup as a more mature Entrepreneur this time around. I don't feel any different to when I was in my 30's and my opportunity is just as leading edge as the first time. But as Richard describes, I am taking 100% of the risk this time.

I believe that there should be more exposure from publications like antill to stimulate some market traction or partnering opportunities for all Entrepreneurs. However, I don't believe that it should discriminate by age. Maybe just set age categories, or second time around category, or something along those lines.

Check out http://www.hcv.com.au to see my latest adventure.

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Richard, whilst I can see some legitimacy in your argument, I feel that some counter points need to be put forward.

Anthill is an entrepreneurship emagazine and as part of its ethos is clearly focused on
a) providing an example of a ‘young’ entrepreneur in an established but changing industry
b) providing a range of opinions as James has mentioned and
c) encouraging entrepreneur qualities in its readers.
The way I see it, 30 under 30 is about encouraging and recognising young people who by their very definition do not have the experience of other competitors in their market. Against the odds, these young people have developed the personality characteristics to succeed against people who are far more experienced in life and business. I think that deserves recognising.

Your stereotype of the baby boomer in paragraph 7 brought a smile to my face. Boomers struggling to find a job after becoming redundant? What about the early twenty year olds with a uni degree who can’t get a job within their chosen profession due to the GFC (by the way, I wonder which demographic the bankers were in?). Boomers are also the same demographic that own the vast proportion of our nation’s wealth. If any one demographic is in a position to succeed it should be them due to wealth created over their working lives.

“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children” – Native American Proverb. This quote has some relevance to the argument as the 30 under 30 program is about motivating young people to do great things. The strength of the Australian economy will, in the next few decades weigh on the shoulders of the demographic that this program targets. As a baby boomer, isn’t it in your best interests to help make Gen Ys better and more efficient at what they do? Your future pension may just depend on it.

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Richard you make some valid points regarding the lack of recognition afford to older entrepreneurs but in doing so I think you've ignored the benefits they have over their more youthful counterparts and why they are in fact glorified.

My first foray into business in my late teens/ early twenties illustrated to me the difficulty of being taken seriously simply because of my age. This was understandable given our idea was a little revolutionary for a fairly mature market yet being taken seriously by anyone on the wrong side of 40 was extremely difficult. We had no contacts built up through years of industry-specific experience and few people willing to help us out in return for favours down the track. Business in youth isn't the pretty picture you might paint. Quite often you really are taken at face value.

The reason I feel young entrepreneurs are glorified is it's a better story. Business is generalised as an old mans game – one conquered after years of battle and experience. The idea that a misty-eyed under-30 can take on their industry with a revolutionary idea and win reads far better than an old war horse who has finally stepped out of middle-management so they can run their own business and find more time to lower their handicap.

Business is not an easy game no matter ones age, but the story is far better when the competitor is young.

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Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:14 pm

Hey Charles I don't agree with some of your more generalised points like youth & internet seems to go hand in hand as in Mark Zuckerberg is still only 26 & he was taken seriously. Steve Jobs & Bill Gates were just out of school & they were taken seriously also. I thnk when it comes to revolutionary ideas it is usually the youth that make the changes not the 50 yo like me. You also mentioned “Business is generalised as an old mans game” but we are not talking business here more the creation of new & revolutionary ideas that may some day be taken over by these such businesses. Once again these new ideas usually come from the young. It is hard to be an old bloke like me & come up new fresh ideas. But hanging around youg guys and gals can help.

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Charles Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:44 pm

Certainly the issue of age is industry-specific and you are right, internet & youth do go hand in hand. Richard Branson perhaps showed you don't need experience to take on the music industry either. But I do believe youth can be a barrier and that was not addressed by Richard.

As I read it, Quitober Challenge, we weren't talking about revolutionary ideas but rather why young entrepreneurs are recognised more so than older entrepreneurs (quote Richard: “Why has this particular demographic (under 30) been singled out for recognition?”) as I commented upon. I made my point that 'business is generalised as an old mans game' to support the fact that the story of a young entrepreneur succeeding is all the more fascinating in the public's eye because they took on their older competition and won.

I am interested however in your generalisation that “new ideas usually come from the young”. Entrepreneurship as we are talking about here is not necessarily about innovation and revolution stemming from “fresh ideas” but rather the exploitation of opportunity. Finding these areas of opportunity rather than dreaming up the next Facebook is key to success. Those subscribing to the micro school of thought on entrepreneurship are divided by the idea that one is born with entrepreneurial traits as opposed to it being developed through experience and courses. I subscribe to the latter and as such believe perhaps you should start leveraging your experience (and age) to find the next area of opportunity.

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Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:34 pm

I guess I think an entrepreneur is one that dreams up the idea rather than exploits it, thinking that VC & Angels do the exploiting. I look at the entrepreneur as being what Seth Godin calls in his book Linchpin, the Artist. It is a nice description he uses to aim for I reckon. So rather than leveraging on my experience I prefer to just do it & hope people can recognise a useful & creative idea when they see it.

I try to keep my mind flexible as it is when I was younger. But youth & flexibility to me have always gone hand in hand & I work hard on maintaining that.

Fnally Charles what would you use to measure/recognise an under 30 entrepreneur by? I would use what I mentioned before by the quality of their “revolutionary & creative ideas” but that is just me.

Charles Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:00 pm

That's an interesting way to look at entrepreneurship but I don't believe an idea is enough. Its feasibility often needs to be tested before any VC or Angel comes along – revolutionary and creative ideas like Google, YouTube and Facebook were all operating before external funding.

I agree recognising entrepreneurs on the basis of their creativity would be good, but if we were to follow your way of thinking we wouldn't know who to recognise – the Artist or the Venture Capitalist? Is an entrepreneur just a great dreamer or a great doer? I think they need a bit of both. Personally I'd be really interested in a category that judged entrepreneurs based on their start-up capital regardless of age. I'm fascinated by companies that grew off tiny start-up capital of just 4 figures like The Body Shop and until the empire folded the Bond Corporation. That's just me.

Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:55 pm

Fair enough Charles I guess it just shows our divergent views on the concept of “entrepreneural” and my defination specifically applies to me. I have always been a bit/lot of a dreamer, more head in the clouds than feet on the ground. Not saying that is good or bad just I need someone of a cmpany to take my ideas further.

What I would like is honest feedback from you on my campaign I am organising for thei year. (Click on my name) It will give you an idea of where I am coming from, hopefully. I am doing this on the NEIS program so it is real bootstrapping by myself at present. And is it is not really in context to this post you can get me at des at quitober.com

steve sherlock Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:56 pm

hey bro, i reckon entrepreneurship is guaged by level of achievement as opposed to a cliche.

where i think you are missing something in the chain/level of entrepreneurship, is between coming up with the idea and getting others to get involved in it.

coz I think you know, dreaming up an idea is one thing, but actually getting others (at least one) to follow you is quite something else altogether. i.e. there are an abundance of dreams/ideas but which dreams get off the ground and build a sustainable following, i guess helps describe the level of entrepreneurship achieved.

Quitober Challenge Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:20 pm

Yeah, well we are all dreamers to a lesser or greater degree. If I fail this time then you can laugh at me and if I succeed I will give you my autograph that is the fun of the job.
But don’t write me off as a mere dreamer until the fat lady sings! (oops there we go again more discrimination)

Great article. Thank you for providing a different perspective on this issue. Has really created a massive paradigm shift in my thinking.

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Really great article Richard, thanks for opening up a much needed conversation. I'm completely with you – the entrepreneurial spirit is ageless, and cannot be contained to specific age groups. Considering the openings our current global situation is calling for the entrepreneurial spirit to rise, it seems a shame to have it restricted by an age category… I would go far as to say it's un-entrepreneurial in fact… quite an old paradigm. If we're going to age anything, age the paradigm this limited thinking comes from and completely open up the floor for ideas to create an world from an entrepreneurial spirit – perhaps, it's just an idea.

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anhhill's linkedin group seem to be a slightly more mature geographic. obviously with linkedin groups no one is anon – which i like.

I wonder if there is any correlation between age and anon comments (i have to concede i deplore critical comments that hide behind anon). then again i guess it depends if someone's commenting as representing their personal brand or dually promoting their company's brand?

anyway how do you police age base events – check id or count wrinkles? if the later some would probably use botox to get around it. or in my case an avatar with a thick black hair piece. (not in 3d though)

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It's apparent reading all these comments that; you're all just trying to justify your own insecurities about your age, by arguing a position which supports your own age bracket.

Why are you lot even arguing over awards and “support” for under 30s or not.

True champions, of all ages, succeed by themselves – without the need of meaningless glorification.

If you can, do it. If you can't – keep complaining about why the world has been unfair in not supporting you enough.

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James Tuckerman - Anthill Mag Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 9:01 am

I don't think most people who enter awards are doing it for 'glorification' or 'support' in the way you mean it.

A little pat on the back can boost morale and provide a new story to present to a customer base. There's a big difference between third-party endorsement and 'meaningless glorification'.

But the real value is in the networks and the companionship these things create. Our 30under30s over the past three years still swap emails and seek each others' guidance and 'support'.

The same can be said about our SMART 100 and COOL COMPANY AWARD participants, which are not age specific (they are PRODUCT and COMPANY specific).

I think that's what underlies the discussion above. No one is trying to justify insecurities about age. I think the real 'thorn' that these types of initiatives bring to the surface is the feeling of exclusion.

You're obviously someone who likes to 'go it alone' (good on you) but most of us value support, recognition and all the benefits that come with these things.

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I understand the underlying feeling here. In my mid thirties I am moving from the young to older category (slowly, please slowly!). However, the reason we help the young is because they need to cut their teeth on something and business is a great place to start. So many skills involved and the potential benefits to society as a whole long term are huge if only a few work out.

The thinks is as we get older we are expected to have done our learning (not that it won't continue) and it is time for us to be resposible for our own wa in life. We are big boys now… go do it!

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There seems to be a perception in part of these posts that us “oldies” are a bit miffed at the attention being given to the “30s”.

Can I suggest that as an “oldie” (ahhh I have admitted it) it is most probably not the case, I would even suggest that it may not really be what Richard is saying in his article, and I quote “I have a problem with society’s obsession around all things ‘youth’ “. From my perspective I am very happy for youth to be given every chance to gain knowledge and experience to help them succeed and if asked I would be happy to assist them (time and opportunity allowing).

The issue as I see it is the “obsession” that only the youth are the saviors of the future of old world (and everything in it). There was a quote mentioned herein recently “Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.” British author George Orwell. However, the present older generation are still here and have learnt a lot of very hard won lessons, they should also be given the credit for being able to put those lessons to good use. And recognised as having different needs when it comes to training up their entrepreneurial skills.

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Let's not drive a wedge between entrepreneurs. We've endured sexism in the workplace and it's not over yet. Agism in the workplace discriminated against older workers in recent decades, now it seems young people are the target. My experience is that people go on the attack when they feel threatened. So let's stop being defensive and get on with being entrepreneurs. If they've got it easier good luck to them. If parents choose support adult offspring that's their business. If I'm jealous, that's my problem, nothing to do with them. I'm over 50, single female raised three daughters and in my own business for 23 years. I'm seeing another “ism” emerging and I don't like it!

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