PreneurCast is a marketing + business podcast. Each week, author and marketer Pete Williams and digital media producer Dom Goucher discuss entrepreneurship, business, internet marketing and productivity.
Pete and Dom discuss Lazy Marketing again, the idea that more and more people are starting businesses because of the apparently easy path that the Internet provides — without following the tried and trusted lessons of basic marketing and business.
Pete and Dom discuss marketing tactics aimed at short term goals and others that are just plain lazy
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Lazy Marketing Redux
Dom Goucher: Hello everyone, and welcome to this week’s episode of PreneurCast with me, Dom Goucher and him, Pete Williams.
Pete Williams: Hey buddy, how’s things
Dom: Good, good, good, as always. Nice and busy. Hopefully you are, too.
Pete: I have plenty of excitement going on at the moment. Lots of very, very exciting projects.
Dom: Awesome. We haven’t talked about this for a little while, but how’s the reading and consuming going?
Pete: As always, trying to get as much consumption done in a week as I can. Not doing as much running or cycling as I have in previous months, so that’s been the cause of a bit of a dip in my consumption. Because as long time listeners would know, a lot of my book consumption is done in audio format when I’m running and riding.
My Audible membership is a godsend to me. It’s been a little bit off, just because I haven’t been exercising as much as I should be, just because I’ve been plowing into some projects. Have been listening to a really, really engaging book called The Secret Life of Houdini: The Making of America’s First Superhero, which I think is such a great subtitle.
The Making of America’s First Superhero, because as the book very, very articulately goes through, it talks about Houdini and how he started his career, how he marketed his career, and how he went about everything he did to grow his career.
And it’s not a business book by any means, it’s not meant to be a business book. It’s just meant to be a biography of the great magician’s life. But if you read it and look at it from the perspective of a marketer, he was, he definitely manufactured this persona of a superhero and he was a magician doing some relatively basic magic tricks.
As we all know, a lot of it’s just sleight-of-hand and trickery in the positive entertainment sense that magic is. It’s really interesting. I’ve learned a lot about Houdini that I didn’t know, that he was a spy for the US government for quite a number of years while he was going around the world traveling, doing his various bits and pieces.
He was a spy reporting back to the government, saying what different countries were doing and things like that. He was very much a showman and a marketer about getting credibility and publicity for his magician shows. He’d go into a new town as a way to drum up business and bums on seats to his actual shows.
He’d go to the local police department, get the local newspaper in tow to come along as well, and then get the local sheriffs to handcuff him or throw him in a jail cell. And then he’d escape from the handcuffs or escape from the local jail cell as a way to get promotion in the newspaper, in the media.
He’d get the local police department to say, “These are absolutely the best handcuffs we have and Houdini was able to get out of them.” He was using third-party endorsements and testimonials that he manufactured. They weren’t lies or anything like that.
He was absolutely going in and picking the locks and getting out of these handcuffs, so that the testimonials and endorsements he got from these celebrities of the time, the very people who had authority and credentials and credibility, he was basically getting them to do his marketing for him by stating and making statements in the press about Houdini’s ability to get out of this stuff.
And the way he then wrapped it all around to make it work over and over again. He was going in there and positioning himself as a consultant to the police department of the towns he was going to. He was going there and helping them get better with their security.
That’s what parlayed into him being able to do these sorts of stunts that then parlayed into press, which then parlayed into ticket sales to his shows. It was really, really interesting. I haven’t quite finished the audiobook yet, but it’s been really cool to get an engaging tale of someone that everyone is aware of.
I think if you asked 10 people on the street these days, name the world’s most famous magician, probably six of them would say Houdini, and four would say David Blaine. Maybe Copperfield might get his name in there somewhere. But Houdini is this legacy that he is America’s first superhero.
Almost 100 years on the path from his death, he’s still spoken about quite a bit and it’s really cool to see how, back in the late 1800s and early 1900s what he was doing to market himself, and grow his persona and his business.
Dom: Cool. I always liked listening to or hearing from you about things that you’ve read, because you look at things differently. So you’ve looked at what most people would think would be just an interesting story, a little bit of history and whatever, and you’ve managed to pick up a marketing lesson or two, or a parallel with a marketing lesson that we’ve already talked about, that idea of using the authority figure. Sorry, before we go on, the book’s called?
Pete: The book’s called The Secret Life of Houdini: The Making of America’s First Superhero. As a really pointless side note, something I didn’t know (which is completely and utterly pointless and irrelevant to everything) but he was the first person to fly an airplane in Australia.
Dom: Wow, you’re right. That’s completely pointless.
Pete: But this is really interesting stuff, that he wanted to learn how to fly a plane. He wanted to be one of the very first people. He was like in the Top 20 or the first 20 people to fly an airplane. So in the early 1900s, he bought his own airplane.
When he had to come to Australia to do a tour for his magic show, he had his plane disassembled, put on the boat with him, boated from America to Australia, reassembled here in Australia so during between the days of his show he could try to get his plane off the ground.
Dom: And here’s me worried about getting my laptop in my hand luggage.
Pete: Yeah, very interesting. Just some really, really interesting stuff. He was more than just a magician. But you had a point?
Dom: No, no, no, I was just going to say you’re listening to the audiobook, so that’s from Audible?
Pete: Yeah, Audible, which is my go-to source for audiobooks. I’ve had my membership there for a couple of years now and they’re greatly a sponsor of the show as well.
Dom: Yeah, just if anybody hasn’t yet joined up, you can pop over to AudibleTrial.com/PreneurCast. If you sign up through that link for the free trial, you can get a free download, so you can try this book out. That’s just a little sponsorship message there.
But to come back to the Audible thing for a second, because the whole thing started that I asked you how you’re getting on because we’re both really busy. And fitting in time to consume, whether it’s more leisure reading or leisure material like this (which originally started out as leisure material, but turned into marketing because that’s how you do it) or whether it’s proper, serious books.
I’ve found recently that being able to listen to material while I’m doing something else, like you do it while you’re listening; but I can’t claim to be that altruistic. It tends to be while I’m washing the dishes, as I’ve mentioned before. But I’ve found that’s just a great way to just claw back some time. Or when I’m traveling, as well.
I find that listening to things while I’m traveling is a lot easier, whether it’s a train or a plane or a bus, or in the car. When you’re in the car, you literally can’t be reading. But all those other modes of transport you potentially could be reading. But I’ve done quite a few transatlantic flights recently.
I’ve certainly found it easier to listen to the material than physically sit there and try to read it with my elbows squeezed in or with the overhead light on because everyone else is in the dark. So it’s a great way to catch up. But the other thing there that you were talking about, roughly what time, what years are we talking about here with Houdini doing all this stuff?
Pete: Late 1900s, early 1900s. I think he passed away in 1927. That’s a number that’s in my head now. Could be completely off by a decade, but it was like the early 1900s.
Dom: This talks to me about something that you and I have talked about, and you know we’ve mentioned it a few times in different places, different presentations that we’ve done, different people we’ve talked to. But you’ve just gone through what Houdini was doing, and you talked about things like using authority figures and creating a case study, and associating.
These are concepts that I think we’ve talked about on the podcast. I think some people have almost said to us, “Revolutionary ideas,” that they’re amazing, forward-thinking type things. Yet, well, this is something that people were doing. Houdini was doing it 100-plus years ago.
And it does talk to this idea that people, especially when people are getting first started in business and certainly the internet is bringing forward the opportunity to be an entrepreneur for absolutely everybody. But there are lessons out there to learn about business that have been around forever. And this is something that you and I have been talking about recently.
Pete: Oh, I couldn’t agree more. It’s interesting. It’s something that I have termed it in general conversations we’ve had and definitely Q&A calls with some mastermind clients: lazy marketing, in that people are just getting lazier. They think that they don’t have to think anymore because the internet is so vast and wide and cheap.
And you can just be lazy and not have to worry about what happens with your actual marketing. And what I mean by that is, back in Houdini’s day or back even 15 years ago, if you have a database of people you wanted to market and communicate to, it’d most likely have to be through direct mail, and that costs money.
You’d have to spend 50 cents, $1, $1.50, $2, whatever it is to print a communication or a sales letter or a marketing piece, put it in an envelope, lick the envelope, and send it off. So there’s a lot of effort that’d have to be gone through to get that communication in the hands of your target market.
So people were really focused, rightly so, on split-testing. You’d mail 20% of your list first versus another 20% to see which headline worked better, and things like that. Then you’d work out your response rate. Then you’d mail the winning ad or the winning direct marketing piece to the rest of your list before you mailed.
And you’d do that smart stuff because you didn’t want to waste any single dollar or any single moment of your time to reach that customer. The perfect analogy here, is, online, though, you can e-mail your list for free. Fundamentally, there’s no really high-level direct cost associated with marketing your list.
Now, the problem with that is people are getting lazy because they go, “I’ll just mail the list today and I’ll mail the list tomorrow. It’s not really costing me anything, so I’ll just keep blasting until I get the actual revenue I need.” Hypothetically, you want to make $100,000 a year to replace your income, whatever it might be.
Well, you’ll just bombard your list and your market and your prospects until you get that revenue, not really worried about maximizing the ROI of each mailing and maximizing the ROI of your time. People are just getting very lazier, I think, in that style and approach to marketing.
They’re just not worried about what they should be worried about. You want to maximize every communication with your list. There’s plenty of other examples that I could talk to, but that’s the idea in that this thing we’re talking about with the internet, people go online.
They go to an internet marketing seminar or hear about internet marketing, and then start thinking it’s a completely different world and you have to do things differently and traditional.
Hundred-year-old time-trusted, tested, proven methods of success and marketing and communication—it’s just thrown out the window. People just stat playing this wild-wild-west game, and they wonder why they’re getting wild-wild west results all over the shop, not consistent, not anything you can hold onto.
Dom: Yeah, and something that you’ve said before; it’s not quite a shock the look on people’s faces when you say this, but there’s definitely a realization as you explain when you say that an internet business is still a business. It’s still a real business, and real business rules apply.
Again, I talk about this because you and I have known each other for quite some time now, but we first met when I saw you present at a number of different events. We didn’t meet the first time I saw you present, but I saw this presentation, it’s around this topic.
It’s around this idea that people get involved in internet-based business opportunities or marketing their business on the internet, but they literally are unaware. The example that you gave there with split-testing a headline is a concept, a basic concept of good marketing.
Some people think it’s a concept for online marketing and sales pages, it’s not. It comes from direct-response ads. It comes from direct mail. And there’s a reason for it. Lazy marketing is exactly the right way to describe this.
People are so lazy they haven’t bothered even finding out what is good marketing, and then putting the effort into doing it and finding out why, why it’s good marketing, why it’s the reason. And your example there is great. People used to literally do this.
I guess they didn’t have to split-test headlines, they could just get their entire mailing list of 100,000 names and print out 100,000 copies of the same thing and mail it. That’s what we in the trade used to call ‘spray and pray.’ That really is. That’s bad marketing in any technology, in any time in history.
Pete: I was going to say, you’re absolutely right, because if you turned around to that same person who’s stumbled across this magical world of internet marketing which doesn’t exist—there’s no such thing as “internet marketing.” That’s the whole rant we’ve spoken about before on the show and what you just alluded to their.
But if you asked that person and said, “I’ve got $100,000 for you to spend on your marketing budget, yet you can’t use e-mail, you have to go direct response. It’s going to cost you $1 per marketing piece.
You’re not quite sure what’ going to work, but you have to make $100,000 return at least to cover the cost of this and some profit along the way as well to cover the effort of doing the marketing. What would you do? Would you just mail? Would you write a sales letter today, mail it tomorrow to the 100,000 people?” Of course not. Even most people would know that sounds stupid; it’s just illogical.
Dom: Ooh. Ooh, do you know what? I’m going to disagree with you?
Pete: Do you reckon!?
Dom: I’m going to disagree with you, and this, I think, is the reality of the situation of lazy marketing. There are so many people coming into this industry—not this industry, coming into business to try and start a business using this infinite opportunity that everyone’s being sold of the internet business being online and all that. And they literally have skipped over the basics.
Pete: Oh, I completely agree. But do you think they’re even that naive to even think that that’s silly?
Dom: Yup, yup. I’m sorry, but I totally believe that there is a huge proportion of people that if you said, “There’s your list,” and in fact, I think you and I, we were at a workshop recently and you might remember this, that this happened. This happened.
A real person at one of our workshops came up with this example that they had X thousand people to send an e-mail to. And they were shocked because we gave the recommendation that they didn’t send all the e-mails all the same first time around.
It was like a revelation to them that we said, “Don’t send all your e-mails to everybody. Send a few to a few people and test the copy, test the headline, test the open rate on that.” Basically, don’t tarnish your list with one shot.
Pete: Yeah, well, this talks to my point. And I could be a little bit off here, but my point is when it comes to the internet, people are naive and they have that exact mindfulness, “Well, it’s not going to cost me anything to e-mail this 100,000 people, so I’ll just e-mail 100,000 people. If it doesn’t work, I’ll e-mail that next 100,000 again tomorrow.”
Dom: But I think it’s worse than that. I think there’s two problems. The first one is that, it’s like a gold rush. It is literally like a gold rush. It’s like, “Thar’s gold in them thar hills?” So people are running and they are buying the modern-day equivalent of shovels.
We’ve talked about the best place to be in a gold rush is being the guy selling the shovels, which is another one of those great perspectives that people don’t think about. That’s real business for you, isn’t it? Don’t bother running up the hillside and getting dirty.
Just stand at the bottom with the shovels. But they’re running up the hill, and literally sticking the shovel in the ground and digging away. And it’s luck, not judgment, if they’re successful.
Dom: Modern-day geology is a science. Prospecting for any mineral now is an absolute science. People do not stick a shovel in the ground or a drill in the seabed or whatever.
Pete: That’s the last thing they do.
Dom: Yeah, exactly—it’s literally the last thing they do. Good business and good marketing is like that, to me. It takes time and research and study and effort and testing. You don’t build an oil rig in wherever they build oil rigs these days, without first one guy in a land rover, wheeling out there with his little hand drill or whatever.
It is like a gold rush. People are literally running to ‘them thar hills,’ literally paying a fortune for shovels and potentially hand-drawn maps on the back of pieces of paper and all these other equivalencies, and not putting the real effort into understanding the situation, understanding the opportunity, and also understanding the work that goes into everything before they put the shovel in.
So this idea of split-testing is alien to a lot of people; not because they’re thick, not because they’re stupid or ignorant (ignorant in the negative sense), but they’re ignorant in the fact that they’ve not put the effort in to learn about the basics of marketing, and the basics of business as well.
After that, we then come to your point that you made which is that they also don’t think through what they’re doing because you said, “It’s easy and free,” to send a hundred thousand e-mails, so people just go ahead and do it. Now, to me, that is not paying attention to the fact that there are real people on the receiving end of this virtual communication.
Everybody, before you send your next e-mail, just remember the last time that you got to back to your car in the car park in the supermarket. Remember the last time you got back and somebody had stuck a piece of paper on your windscreen. How happy were you about that piece of paper?
Now imagine that it happened every day for a week when you parked outside your office or you parked outside your own house, in fact. Imagine you parked your car outside in your own parking garage under your apartment block, and every single morning for a week, somebody stuck a piece of paper on your windscreen.
Pete: And it was the same person doing it.
Dom: And it was the same piece of paper! It said the same thing! And it had no value to you; there was no value to you whatsoever. It just basically aid, “Buy my stuff.”
Pete: Yeah, I clearly had more faith in the people running to internet marketing in that they would’ve at least been conscious that doing that is silly. But yeah, you’re probably right. People are probably even more naive than I give them credit for.
Dom: Yeah, and this is the thing. This year has been a fantastic opportunity for me to learn. And I think that’s part of what we’re talking about there. Doing something and learning from it, and building that into your marketing, building that into your business.
Not just committing all of your resources to a project and if it works, it works, and if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. Not really understanding either of those two situations. Because I think a lot of people do that.
When they first get started in business and certainly the opportunity that the internet is bringing to business, even a traditional businessperson—and this is the other thing, a traditional businessperson always seems to lose their mind when they get involved with the internet.
Pete: Absolutely, I’ve seen that myself. And this is another rant that I’ve been talking about recently, as well, which is a perfect segue. It’s more than lazy marketing. Just to really hit that nail a couple of more times, when we’re talking about lazy marketing the example we’re using is split-testing e-mails.
But there’s so many things that you do in your business, whether it’s writing sales copy for a webpage or producing a product, whatever it is. Lazy marketing is not just about split-testing e-mails, it’s about everything you’re doing and doing it half-assed.
Taking the easy way out because it’s free and it’s easy to do, so you don’t really think through the process before you do the task, like send an e-mail out. But to parlay back to what you were talking about there for a second, and this is what I’ve spoken about quite a bit recently as well with some consulting clients and Q&A calls, the same goes for business.
If you’re going to start an online business, people lose their minds and don’t think through business success principles of what a business owner and entrepreneur should be doing. This is an example I’ve used a lot in the last couple of weeks. Internet didn’t exist 15 years ago.
If you’re going to go and open up a retail store, would you go and do a sign-writing course and learn how to do sign writing so you could put the signs on the front of your retail business? Of course you wouldn’t. Would you go and buy a buzzsaw, learn how to do carpentry so you that you could do the shop fit-out for your store?
Of course you wouldn’t. Why wouldn’t you do it? Because that’s not the best use of your time as the business owner and entrepreneur. The best use of your time is worrying about traffic and conversion. We’ve spoken about this so many times on the show.
Your focus, as the entrepreneur, should be on traffic (in this case, foot traffic to your store) and conversion (getting people who are in your store to open their purse and transact with you). That’s what you should be focused on by 80 to 1 or 80/20 principle, that’s what it’s all about.
But when people go online, as you were talking about, they lose their minds. This basic business success principle goes out the window and they think they have to learn all the elements, all the mechanics, all the tactics to make their business work.
An equivalent of doing the shop fit-out, for example, if you’re running an online business, is learning how to install WordPress, and set up a hosting account and your domain name and all that stuff.
Dom: All those parts that go to building your website.
Pete: Yeah, exactly. Or once your website’s, somewhat there, you worry about learning how to do basic HTML so you can create the banner or change the headline, or do the style and the layout and the CSS of your sales page or your website, which is the equivalent of sign-writing, because that’s the face and the prettiness of your site.
But that’s not where you add value as an entrepreneur because the equivalent is: sign-writing = page layout, shop fitting = WordPress hosting installation. So why, as online business owners, just because it’s easier to do and learn how to set up a hosting account and WordPress, because it’s easier than doing a shop fit-out, doesn’t mean you should be doing the WordPress install.
The benefits of the internet marketing-type business model (if you want to use that analogy, which I don’t love that name as I’ve spoken at before) the benefit is that you can get your WordPress blog installed and set-up for a fraction of the cost it would cost you to do a shop fit-out for a retail store, so the profitability of the business is easier.
You shouldn’t necessarily be doing the tactics, you should just get the tactics implemented for your business, the strategies, the mechanics done for you at a cheaper price point than the old equivalent. That’s the equivalent of having a business that you run on the internet. It’s not about being able to do it all yourself; it’s about the profitability should be greater because you should still pay for that technical stuff to be done (those mechanics) while you focus on traffic and conversion.
But the mechanics of it is still not relevant. And this is a thing that you spoke about, that it’s a sideways rant a little bit. Because it’s not lazy marketing by definition, but it’s lazy entrepreneurship almost because people start thinking they need to do everything.
So it’s lazy thinking which causes you to be busier, which is really a weird concept to get through and think through, and you might be able to articulate it better than I am, ranting here. But that’s the whole point; that you’re being a lazy entrepreneur at this instance because you think you have to do it all. You’re not willing to sit back and think about, what is the best use of my time?
How can I best grow my business — which is what your website should be for you, it should be a business. And just because you’re running a website doesn’t mean you’re internet marketing. You’re running a business whose current and only path to market is a website. Is that right or wrong? An argument for another day. But that’s what you have to think about. It’s a business whose current and only path to market is a website.
Dom: Absolutely, mate. That’s one of the first things I remember you ever saying in any one of your presentations, absolutely. And it struck a chord with me, and over the years we’ve worked together. It’s become something that I say to other people because it’s very true, and you’re absolutely right.
But to come back to that 80/20 piece that you said and just wrap up what you’re talking about. You’re right. It is lazy entrepreneurship which is leading to lazy marketing or uninformed marketing. And we like our shows to stay within a reasonable time frame, we try and keep them to 45 minutes so people can listen to them and get some value out of it without spending too much of their day, and you know what?
I reckon we should cut this one short with an action point. And that action point is: whatever mechanics thing it was that you thought you were going to do today, whether it’s install a website or do some search engine optimization tactic thing or learn how to format a Kindle book, just go and listen to the episode that Pete and I recorded ages and ages ago (and I’ll put the link in the show notes).
We did an episode where Pete went through his favorite business and marketing books. Go and pick one. Any one. Really don’t mind which one it is. Go and pick one, read it. Put it on your reading list. Go to AudibleTrial.com/PreneurCast.
Take advantage of our free trial offer where you can download anything for free, one copy of something for free on Audible. Or go to Amazon, get it on your Kindle immediately (Kindle physical or your Kindle app on your iPad, or even on your desktop). But go and choose one of those business or marketing principle books that you haven’t read yet. And if you haven’t read any of them, shame on you.
Go and fill in what is probably an 80% gap in your knowledge. Go and learn about the basic principles of marketing in whatever it is that you’re doing. Whether you’re going to get involved in e-mail marketing. E-mail marketing, just as Pete said, it’s just a modern-day equivalent of direct mail.
Pete: With a lot more competition these days, with lots of lazy marketers just spamming their lists.
Dom: Yeah, and this is the very positive thing, because this has been a bit of a negative rant. But the positive thing is if you go and read about and learn about the time-proven principles that have been used for hundreds, over a hundred years in some cases; we started this out with a chat about Houdini.
And by the way, if Pete says that it’s an interesting read, I recommend that you go and see if you can get those lessons from that book, too. Because I’m sure there’s a lot more things that he did that are very clever marketing principles.
But these things, these time-proven principles, if you stop being lazy and take the time to learn about these principles and apply them in your marketing, you will be in a very, very small percentage of people that are doing these things and doing them well, and doing them the way that has been proven to work. Which means that even in this time of massive competition, you will stand out.
You will be the guy in the gold rush that is taking his time, going around, looking for the geological evidence that there is potentially a mineral, some gold, in that place, looking for all the signs and then go back down the hill, buy the shovel, walk directly to the point, stick the shovel in, and hit gold.
Pete: And one last thing I’m just going to say to put a little bow on the end of this. If you’re listening to this right now and you’re an internet marketer and you’re thinking, “This doesn’t apply because the internet is different, my business is different,” stop listening to the show. Literally, this is a big rant and we’ll probably do an episode of this at some session in the future: your business is not different.
I have a finger-food company, I have a retail outdoor gear store, I have a telecommunications company, I have e-commerce sites. To me, they’re all the same business. They’re sales and marketing businesses that happen to sell a product, so they’re all the same business.
No matter if it’s an online, e-commerce store or a retail gear store for outdoor adventurers or if it’s a finger-food catering company, they’re all the same business. I know a lot of people say, “Oh, my business is different, it doesn’t apply to me, my business is different.”
I think, hopefully, people who listen to the show realize that I’m a walking testament to this philosophy of business that your business is the same. It’s sales and marketing and the product is important and you have to have a great product. You have to be good at customer service—but that stuff is a given these days. So your focus should not be on that.
Your business is the same as everybody else’s, it’s all about traffic and conversion. That is it. Whether it’s online, offline, retail, wholesale, B-to-B, B-to-C, it’s traffic and conversion. So the stuff we talk about on this show, not only this episode but every episode, is relevant to you and your business. Your business is not fundamentally different.
Dom: Absolutely, and I totally agree, mate. We’ve been doing this show for over a year now, well over 60 episodes. And yeah, if you’ve listened to any of our shows, you should know by now that what we talk about is applicable to every business. If you think it’s not applicable to you, then save yourself some time, definitely go and listen to somebody else.
But you’ve wrapped up very well, Pete. I do think that’s a great topic for another show; we will pick up on that again. But for now, folks, if you go to PreneurMedia.tv, there will be a link below the show, in the show notes, below this episode. But PreneurMedia.tv and find the episode on our recommended book list.
Because PreneurMedia.tv has all of our back-catalogued episodes and they’ve all been transcribed, you can literally just get the links to those books, a list of the books in text format or links to them directly on that website. So you don’t have to listen to the show (I recommend you do to hear what Pete thinks about each one of those books, by all means, or read the transcript).
But you can just literally click on a list of books and I do, honestly, wholeheartedly believe that if you haven’t read some or all of them, then your marketing and business knowledge might be lacking by anything up to 80%. And by studying any one of them, you put yourself in a smaller and smaller percentage of people that have a higher and higher chance of success.
Pete: Sounds good.
Dom: Okay, folks, thanks for listening to this week and look forward to another episode, and look forward, as always, to your feedback on PreneurMedia.tv or over on iTunes in your local iTunes Store. Just keep the feedback coming. We love to hear from you, love your ideas for shows and your feedback on the shows. We will see you next week. Pete?
Pete: Sounds great, looking forward to it.
The Secret Life of Houdini – William Kalush
These previous episodes were talked about in today’s show. If you missed them, go back and listen: PreneurCast Episode 06 – The Reading List
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